The World is Full of Real People • Hacker News Board

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#11

Post by rpwilcox » Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 3:18 PM UTC

zmj wrote: post #8

I want to look back and say “I worked harder than I had to. I gave up time with my kids, with my friends, to do what needed to be done. To give back to the rest of the world, to enable them to live just a little bit happier, a little bit better.” I don't want to say that. I'm rather fond of my family and my friends. Who are these strangers you're asking me to sacrifice for?

True (and that's the one issue I had with the article).

I want to look back at my life and say something like, "I labored to make a sustainable business, was able to see my kids grow up and be there for them. All while working towards making the world a little bit happier, maybe employing some people, or let people live a bit happier or a bit better".

(I don't really want to look back on my life and see nothing but crazy deadlines and late nights)

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#12

Post by AznHisoka » Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 3:29 PM UTC

I think most people just aren't exposed to big problems, and that's why we build software for other techies. We also tend to solve our own problems, which are mostly "trivial" compared to the bigger problems outside of our lives.

One way to solve this is to encourage multi-disciplines in school. CS students should interact and do more projects with Pre-med students, psych majors, etc.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#13

Post by tomjen3 » Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 3:37 PM UTC

Bullshit. The reason we don't have to worry about getting a job is because a computer programmer provide value and because we are good at it.

So no we don't live a life of privilege. We worked for, and earned, our position.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#14

Post by tomjen3 » Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 3:40 PM UTC

zmj wrote: post #8

I want to look back and say “I worked harder than I had to. I gave up time with my kids, with my friends, to do what needed to be done. To give back to the rest of the world, to enable them to live just a little bit happier, a little bit better.” I don't want to say that. I'm rather fond of my family and my friends. Who are these strangers you're asking me to sacrifice for?

It is typical religious guilt. You must sacrifice for the stranger because if you help your friends you may get some enjoyment out of it too.

surprisingly common in atheists, environmentalists, etc even if they are not traditionally considered religious.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#15

Post by AznHisoka » Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 3:42 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #9

The point that developers tend to live an extremely privileged life compared to the human average is an excellent one. However, I must strenuously object to the characterization of building tools for other developers as simply being self-pleasure. If developers really can do good things for society, then by helping other developers, am I not helping to achieve that goal? If software is useful, and I build something t…

You're right. However, there comes a point where we don't need yet another framework, or productivity app, or another project management tool. I also think the author is addressing people who build "thin value" startups as well, not just developer tools. Like Color, or Farmville, or Diaspora.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#16

Post by tomhoward » Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 3:42 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #9

The point that developers tend to live an extremely privileged life compared to the human average is an excellent one. However, I must strenuously object to the characterization of building tools for other developers as simply being self-pleasure. If developers really can do good things for society, then by helping other developers, am I not helping to achieve that goal? If software is useful, and I build something t…

Spot on. Some of the key economic principles are covered in this EconTalk podcast with Paul Romer, on growth and "meta-idas". http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2007/08/romer_on_growth.htm...

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#17

Post by j3 » Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 3:44 PM UTC

rpwilcox wrote: post #11

zmj wrote: post #8

I want to look back and say “I worked harder than I had to. I gave up time with my kids, with my friends, to do what needed to be done. To give back to the rest of the world, to enable them to live just a little bit happier, a little bit better.” I don't want to say that. I'm rather fond of my family and my friends. Who are these strangers you're asking me to sacrifice for?

True (and that's the one issue I had with the article). I want to look back at my life and say something like, "I labored to make a sustainable business, was able to see my kids grow up and be there for them. All while working towards making the world a little bit happier, maybe employing some people, or let people live a bit happier or a bit better". (I don't really want to look back on my life and see nothing but c…

Agreed entirely. I only meant that when you choose do work harder than you have to, the necessary trade off is that you're sacrificing time with other people you love.

A typical dev could probably work 60% of a normal schedule and afford a comfortable life for their family. You could go home at 1pm every day and that'd be fun, but you can also sacrifice a bit of that and make change.

IMO, life without friends and family is wasted.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#18

Post by tomhoward » Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 3:45 PM UTC

AznHisoka wrote: post #15

mikeash wrote: post #9

The point that developers tend to live an extremely privileged life compared to the human average is an excellent one. However, I must strenuously object to the characterization of building tools for other developers as simply being self-pleasure. If developers really can do good things for society, then by helping other developers, am I not helping to achieve that goal? If software is useful, and I build something t…

You're right. However, there comes a point where we don't need yet another framework, or productivity app, or another project management tool. I also think the author is addressing people who build "thin value" startups as well, not just developer tools. Like Color, or Farmville, or Diaspora.

People who build things that "we don't need" get the message when no-one uses their product and they run out of money. But it's still a valuable process for them and everyone else, as long as they learn how to build things we do need.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#19

Post by janus » Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 3:51 PM UTC

Build what you build, as long as you help one person, you are contributing to society. You don't need to affect end users directly to sit back and think that you are really helping the world to be a better place.

Re: The World is Full of Real People

#20

Post by anamax » Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 4:05 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #14

zmj wrote: post #8

I want to look back and say “I worked harder than I had to. I gave up time with my kids, with my friends, to do what needed to be done. To give back to the rest of the world, to enable them to live just a little bit happier, a little bit better.” I don't want to say that. I'm rather fond of my family and my friends. Who are these strangers you're asking me to sacrifice for?

It is typical religious guilt . You must sacrifice for the stranger because if you help your friends you may get some enjoyment out of it too. surprisingly common in atheists, environmentalists, etc even if they are not traditionally considered religious.

etc includes big govt folks too. Since they're both more numerous and more powerful than enfironmentalists.

However, I don't see the atheist connection. Yes, some atheists are big govt types, sure, some do, but "sacrifice for the stranger because ..." doesn't seem to be an essentially atheist characteristic.