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Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

abc.net.au

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Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#151

Post by chmod600 »

ggm wrote: post #88
antihipocrat wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree that nuclear anything is a big deal, but just wanted remind everyone that the British tested their nuclear bombs in the outback.. and Australia has ordered some nuclear subs.

Nuclear powered subs, there is no intent or request to provide nuclear weapons. It is not unusual for nuclear capable vessels to visit Australia and in the usual "will not confirm or deny" sense nobody is going to speak to visiting vessels with ICBM or tactical nuclear weapons. But the formalism remains: Australian defence forces are not overtly seeking nuclear arms to operate under the Australian flag.

In the context of this thread, I don't think it's important whether nuclear material is used for weapons or not.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#152

Post by [deleted] »

Gravityloss wrote: post #97
defrost wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they certainly FUBAR'd and lost brownie points when they blew up Juukan Gorge. Let's not forget they're sitting on $64 billion US worth of Copper in the US on native lands either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juukan_Gorge Today I learned.

[deleted]

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#154

Post by heywhatupboys »

I-M-S wrote: post #56
lqet wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The apartment was fully settled in 1980. A year later, an 18-year-old woman who lived there suddenly died. In 1982, her 16-year-old brother followed, and then their mother. [All from leukemia]. [...] A new family moved into the apartment, and their son died from leukemia as well. > A child's bed was located directly next to the wall containing the capsule.

Naturally occurring radiation might play a part in human tendency to regard certain places as haunted.

lmao, this is the most HN comment

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#155

Post by SkeuomorphicBee »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #43
ivan4th wrote: post #27

BTW, there was an accident in Ukraine (Soviet Union at the time) related to a radioactive capsule that ended up in the wall of an apartment building https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kramatorsk_radiological_accide...

Something similar in brazil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident While the soviet incident was one really bad fuckup, this was a chain of many people fucking up horribly Videos for people who don't like to read: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhL0xQzPSy8 (16m) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5tEjXGHNeg (6m)

The 1987 Brazilian accident in Goiânia was horrendous because the caesium-137 capsule was breached and there was widespread contamination by radioactive dust. I get chilled to the bone when I read the descriptions of people innocently playing with the curious glow-in-the-dark dust as a novelty, showing to their neighbors and friends.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#156

Post by cshimmin »

noir_lord wrote: post #117
eternityforest wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Geiger counter doesn't have to be in the truck. It can even be integrated with the equipment being carried, so it can raise the alarm no matter where it is, as long as it has battery. It could even use a low power solid state sensor since the radioactivity is so strong, and when it detects radiation, start dead reckoning until it gets a GPS lock, so you could potentially still get good info with a coin cell level…

Do we have a Gieger Counter Sensor for when the Gieger Counter falls of the truck as well and does that need a Gieger Counter Sensor Sensor? (tongue in cheek). Seems like a simpler solution would be to prioritise checking some shipments over others at departure and arrival. My partner works in shipping/logistics and hazardous chemicals/products are treat completely differently to regular bulk cargo.

It actually could work pretty well. A Geiger counter is essentially a current gain device. Ionizing radiation passes through the chamber and excites free electrons which travel towards high voltage plates. The gain comes when the drifting positive ions collide with other gas particles and knock additional electrons free, starting the process again.

Rad source goes missing? Current stops flowing in the GC. HV power failure? Current stops flowing. GC falls out of the vehicle? Current stops flowing.

In any of these cases, you make the system shout an annoying beep that everyone within 250m of the vehicle can hear and somebody checks on it.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#157

Post by go_prodev »

andrewstuart wrote: post #120
Loic wrote: post #23

I am not surprised the found the capsule, I am surprised by the very professional way the company handled the case. If you look at the timeline of events (see link from dang comment), they reacted extremely quickly and professionally, from the contractor doing the transport to Rio Tinto informing the authorities. For me Rio Tinto was the company not taking care of our environment[0] in its operations, so for once, I…

Rio Tinto are never professional, they’re trying hard not to damage their rock bottom reputation further after the fact of stuffing something up, destroying something, being negligent. If they’re giving the appearance of being good at that, don’t mistake it for professionalism. It’s simply that they know the cost to them in the future of worldwide headlines in which they lost nuclear material. Rio Tinto Enviro Destru…

Having recently learned about their pretty ambitious emissions targets I disagree with you.

I think they are strongly responding to a shift in higher demand for carbon neutral materials with their big clients. I read about a sustainability labelling of Aluminium using Blockchain technology and it sounds like they're quite invested in green tech...a flip from the mining companies of yore

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#158

Post by logifail »

WantonQuantum wrote: post #131
logifail wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Radiation is not "spread" in the manner you are suggesting "[in] 1987 in Goiânia, Brazil [..] a forgotten radiotherapy source was stolen from an abandoned hospital site in the city. It was subsequently handled by many people, resulting in four deaths. About 112,000 people were examined for radioactive contamination and 249 of them were found to have been contaminated" "In the consequent cleanup operation, topsoil h…

In the Wikipedia article it’s clear that the container of the caesium 137 was punctured and the grains of caesium powder were handled by many people and spread on surfaces. That’s just the original source of beta particles being spread around rather than the beta radiation “spreading” in some way.

> That’s just the original source of beta particles being spread around rather than the beta radiation “spreading” in some way

OK, fair point. We should use phrases like "spreading radioactivity" or "spreading radioactive contamination"?

If the wording is corrected, the original point does still apply. You really wouldn't want a radioactive source stuck in your vehicle's tyre.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#159

Post by sampo »

askvictor wrote: post #51
Loic wrote: post #23

I am not surprised the found the capsule, I am surprised by the very professional way the company handled the case. If you look at the timeline of events (see link from dang comment), they reacted extremely quickly and professionally, from the contractor doing the transport to Rio Tinto informing the authorities. For me Rio Tinto was the company not taking care of our environment[0] in its operations, so for once, I…

> It vanished between January 11 and January 16, but its loss was not reported for more than a week. That doesn't seem that quick or professional to me...

> > It vanished between January 11 and January 16, but its loss was not reported for more than a week.

> That doesn't seem that quick or professional to me...

Wikipedia says they started to unload the shipment on 25th, found out about the missing item, and reported to authorities on the same day.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#160

Post by oliver910 »

perihelions wrote: post #101

Is the idea of blameless postmortem that exotic in the general public? If I hear that a critical safety system failed, my first association isn't "find the individual closest to responsibility, and look into whether a criminal prosecution is feasible". - "We have the ability to prosecute under the radiation safety act and we will certainly look at such prosecutions, and we've done that in the past," [Chief Health Off…

I think the response is pretty reasonable. Fines/punishments from regulators internalise externalities and disincentivise antisocial behaviour.

If Rio just writes off the fine without improving its processes in tandem then it could make sense for the regulator to intervene further, but in either case Rio should be on the hook for damages rather than WA taxpayers.

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