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Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

abc.net.au

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Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#121

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

dtech wrote: post #113
perihelions wrote: post #101

Is the idea of blameless postmortem that exotic in the general public? If I hear that a critical safety system failed, my first association isn't "find the individual closest to responsibility, and look into whether a criminal prosecution is feasible". - "We have the ability to prosecute under the radiation safety act and we will certainly look at such prosecutions, and we've done that in the past," [Chief Health Off…

It is still good to place (organizational) blame and fines on such a thing, otherwise it's financially the most attractive option to take inappropriate risks.

A lot of corporations actually budget for fines.

People can really suck. It may be a corporation, doing the crime, but an individual made the decision to do it.

I remember a DJ, in Washington DC, talking about parking fines.

Parking in DC is expensive, with monthly passes, costing hundreds of dollars a month.

His reasoning was that he parked illegally in lots around the studio, and occasionally got tickets, that he paid without issue, and it cost him far less than getting a pass.

I assume these were not “tow away” lots.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#122

Post by mrpopo »

perihelions wrote: post #101

Is the idea of blameless postmortem that exotic in the general public? If I hear that a critical safety system failed, my first association isn't "find the individual closest to responsibility, and look into whether a criminal prosecution is feasible". - "We have the ability to prosecute under the radiation safety act and we will certainly look at such prosecutions, and we've done that in the past," [Chief Health Off…

Not to mention that higher fines and prosecution could easily lead to the opposite effect in such a case, namely hiding the fact that they lost the capsule.

It was extremely likely no one would have found it for years anyway.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#124

Post by sokoloff »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #121
dtech wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still good to place (organizational) blame and fines on such a thing, otherwise it's financially the most attractive option to take inappropriate risks.

A lot of corporations actually budget for fines. People can really suck. It may be a corporation, doing the crime, but an individual made the decision to do it. I remember a DJ, in Washington DC, talking about parking fines. Parking in DC is expensive , with monthly passes, costing hundreds of dollars a month. His reasoning was that he parked illegally in lots around the studio, and occasionally got tickets, that he…

In college, a resident parking violation in Cambridge was $10, while garage parking in Harvard Sq was $12 or more.

Going out to dinner in the area, using the stochastic parking “garage” was the obvious choice.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#125

Post by Schiendelman »

discordance wrote: post #82
nl wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dangerous items should be prioritised.

I heard a story about someone who checks in a starting pistol (used for running races) because it ensures his luggage will never be lost or messed with.

Many photographers do this. Put a gun in with your Pelican of photo gear and it never gets lost.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#126

Post by hgomersall »

noir_lord wrote: post #117
eternityforest wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Geiger counter doesn't have to be in the truck. It can even be integrated with the equipment being carried, so it can raise the alarm no matter where it is, as long as it has battery. It could even use a low power solid state sensor since the radioactivity is so strong, and when it detects radiation, start dead reckoning until it gets a GPS lock, so you could potentially still get good info with a coin cell level…

Do we have a Gieger Counter Sensor for when the Gieger Counter falls of the truck as well and does that need a Gieger Counter Sensor Sensor? (tongue in cheek). Seems like a simpler solution would be to prioritise checking some shipments over others at departure and arrival. My partner works in shipping/logistics and hazardous chemicals/products are treat completely differently to regular bulk cargo.

Having active monitoring with fail-safes seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to me. A short range battery powered system that continuously reports the presence of the source would seem like a good start.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#127

Post by Schiendelman »

shapefrog wrote: post #123

> "He said a search vehicle was driving past at 70 kilometres per hour on the Great Northern Highway when a detection device revealed radiation." Did nobody think to drive along the road with a geiger counter for the last few weeks?

Few weeks? It’s been known to be missing for one week.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#128

Post by igbk »

perihelions wrote: post #101

Is the idea of blameless postmortem that exotic in the general public? If I hear that a critical safety system failed, my first association isn't "find the individual closest to responsibility, and look into whether a criminal prosecution is feasible". - "We have the ability to prosecute under the radiation safety act and we will certainly look at such prosecutions, and we've done that in the past," [Chief Health Off…

I suspect the extend and target of postmortem blame varies considerably from culture to culture. An anecdote from the railroad traffic between Germany and Denmark:

"[In 2019, a DB Cargo freight train in Denmark caused an accident with a passenger train on its way to Copenhagen after a truck trailer flew off the freight train due to high winds. The German side was keen to find out who was responsible at the lowest level, i.e. the wagon inspector who had not adequately secured the freight on the freight train. The Danish side didn't care, the local authorities were concerned with structural responsibility. Not who caused the accident, but why could it happen! So in Denmark, the motto is: the process is the cause.]"

- https://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/dienstleister/zugunglueck-be... (German source)

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#129

Post by rippercushions »

shapefrog wrote: post #123

> "He said a search vehicle was driving past at 70 kilometres per hour on the Great Northern Highway when a detection device revealed radiation." Did nobody think to drive along the road with a geiger counter for the last few weeks?

Yes, and that's how they found it. But as this comment explains, it's not quite as trivial as you'd think:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34570931

We were lucky that it was found close to the road and thus not masked by background radiation.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#130

Post by mieko »

igbk wrote: post #128
perihelions wrote: post #101

Is the idea of blameless postmortem that exotic in the general public? If I hear that a critical safety system failed, my first association isn't "find the individual closest to responsibility, and look into whether a criminal prosecution is feasible". - "We have the ability to prosecute under the radiation safety act and we will certainly look at such prosecutions, and we've done that in the past," [Chief Health Off…

I suspect the extend and target of postmortem blame varies considerably from culture to culture. An anecdote from the railroad traffic between Germany and Denmark: "[In 2019, a DB Cargo freight train in Denmark caused an accident with a passenger train on its way to Copenhagen after a truck trailer flew off the freight train due to high winds. The German side was keen to find out who was responsible at the lowest lev…

> keen to find out who was responsible at the lowest level

It's funny how profit flows up, but legal responsibility trickles down.

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