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EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

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Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#41

Post by mritun »

I was about to write a knee-jerk comment about how short-sighted the EU law is, but then I stopped and rethought.

EU (and India) are fundamentally trying to strengthen their local economies and severe their dependence on US based entities. I could disagree but I think it’s really important to understand that these are sovereign nations with dedicated think tanks.

Policy decisions like this are debated and then enacted. It would not be surprising if the coverage of Open Source software repositories is not accidental, but actually a very well thought nuance because truth is that nearly all big Open Source entities are US based! In the eyes of the policy makers, The “big tech problem” may not be limited to commercial for-profit entities and arguably more relevant to open-source which is where EU is betting it’s future on.

However absurd it may seem to a open source activist, it may not seem absurd for a policy maker to consider that open source stewardship should have an independent EU chapter as well that answers to EU policy and abides by the local laws. It may not happen on day 1, but policymakers of such wide ranging laws like the Digital Markets act, think more in decades, than years.

TL;DR - Interesting interpretation is that Digital Market act purposefully covers all “big tech players” - commercial or open source. In the eyes of EU policy makers Mozilla, Apache and Debian foundations could very well be as “US controlled” and “strategically important” as commercial entities!

(disclaimer: I work for a large corporation, but this comment is my own 1am thought!)

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#42

Post by voidwtf »

m_a_g wrote: post #3

It is almost impossible to obey this law. It shows how uninformed the EU lawmakers are when it comes to technology.

We need to stop electing people into office who are a generation behind the rest of the world. In the US we’re (re-)electing octogenarians. In the EU it seems the average lawmaker is 10-15 years older than the average citizen. Experience is commendable, but it’d also be great if the people legislating our future lived in our present instead of our past.

You can’t buy a house working full-time at Sears anymore grandpa. No grandpa, I don’t just have a 20% down payment saved up for that 360k house. The average citizen pays more for a loaf of bread, some Kraft singles, a dozen eggs, and a can of beans than they make in an hour.

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#43

Post by cpa »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #31
thaumasiotes wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This kind of law would be analogous to making a law that alcohol cannot be physically consumed by underage drinkers. We don't have a law like that in place for alcohol, but we do for any number of other substances.

Such as? I can't think of any examples apart from possibly child-proof caps on medication, but that is serving a slightly different purpose - safety rather than authoritarianism.

I think they were thinking of illegal drugs, which you generally can't possess. Maybe the act of consumption is not illegal per se, though, I'm not sure.

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#45

Post by worldofmatthew »

sendfoods wrote: post #9

I am the first person to appreciate the pro-online-privacy legislation from the EU in the last couple of years. Yet...How can the same organization be behind this? Is it a result of the sheer size of the org, with malevolent people reeking their ugly heads? A more cynical "privacy legislation as a smoke screen with totalitarian measures in the backend"?

Yes.

Though I would also add a lot of it was about growing protectionism, in response to the EU not investing enough in the internet and acting surprised when USA's investments puts its companies on top.

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#46

Post by AstixAndBelix »

We have had physical mail for millennia, and yet I can still go send stuff completely anonymously.

Before adding these insane restrictions for sending messages online, maybe these politicians should first force people to identify themselves and prove they're over 17 to send a letter? See how well that goes

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#47

Post by jeoqn »

mantas wrote: post #29
noduerme wrote: post #5

It seems that application stores would only be a tiny fragment of what would be affected by the law. Basically everything involving facilitating communications between users would be subject to draconian surveillance and reporting requirements. This is not the way a free or open society progresses.

EU is neither free nor open. I'm saying this as a citizen of EU member. It's getting more and more pro-big-business and pro-big-government day by day. While citizen self-governance is crushed over and over. Good example is Poland vs EU conflict for political control of judges. Meanwhile nobody bats an eye for existing political control of judges in my country. Here higher level judges have to be approved by parliamen…

It’s only bad if the judges are conservative ;-)

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#48

Post by mjw_byrne »

EU tech law seems to be a bit of a rollercoaster. GDPR was conceptually a great thing (although its actual implementation smacks strongly of boomers with filofaxes ranting about FaceTok and Google Siri), the right to repair is good, the USB-C thing is useful. The cookie permission thing didn't work though.

It's sad to see the EU now joining the "let's use child abuse as an excuse to steal the internet" bandwagon. The UK Government has been doing this for years, and is trying it right now with the Online Safety Bill. I never know what to think of the motivation behind this stuff. Is it a well-meaning but naive attempt to protect the vulnerable, or is it the establishment desperately trying to destroy the threat posed by open communication and the empowerment of individuals?

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#49

Post by pelasaco »

sendfoods wrote: post #9

I am the first person to appreciate the pro-online-privacy legislation from the EU in the last couple of years. Yet...How can the same organization be behind this? Is it a result of the sheer size of the org, with malevolent people reeking their ugly heads? A more cynical "privacy legislation as a smoke screen with totalitarian measures in the backend"?

"To protect the children" argument is the last refuge of a crook

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#50

Post by thaumasiotes »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #31
thaumasiotes wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This kind of law would be analogous to making a law that alcohol cannot be physically consumed by underage drinkers. We don't have a law like that in place for alcohol, but we do for any number of other substances.

Such as? I can't think of any examples apart from possibly child-proof caps on medication, but that is serving a slightly different purpose - safety rather than authoritarianism.

Heroin, cocaine, opium, marijuana, methamphetamine, MDMA, LSD...

Interestingly, the legal structure around these substances apparently avoids banning consumption, limiting itself to banning the obtaining or possession of the substance. But it's worth noting that consumption itself is also prohibited, just without a firm textual basis. For example, if you give birth in a hospital, you will be tested for the presence of illegal drugs in your bloodstream (your consent is not required for this), and if you test positive, your child will be automatically confiscated.

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