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I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

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Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#211

I had two customers. One came to me after he couldn't get a company in the Ukraine to cooperate. He had already paid them $25k and the website was barely useful. This was an san fransisco exGoogle product manager with more money than sense, zero coding skills, and in love with subscription services. I charged him half for 2 months of work and got the website in front of paying customers. Then $1000 a month for mainte…

Lol, sell her the "hacker news hug of death plan" and put her website on the Cloudflare free plan. It's like an hour of work...

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#212
I've worked on marketplaces before, though not the most technical job you can get in the industry, you must execute on the product side your the operational wheels will literally fall off. Even this app, it's not a two way marketplace, as it is a three way: end users, clients, and you as the operations team. It can also be very difficult to get flywheel effects going, but that's a problem for a different day :)

Anyway, it always surprises me that non-technical founders try to enter a field where the are unskilled in the core competencies (software/sales/marketing), then outsource that competency to someone with no vested interest in the outcome of the project. There's a reason tech companies don't outsource the tech, and that's because you want extremely tight integration of decision making and technical knowledge.

Additionally, I'm surprised the marketing spend was so low. An infinitely better plan would have been for one person to build a BE/website that works on mobile, another to sell it to some clients with fun activities, and spend as much money as possible on targeted marketing. That, and not trying to sell a travel application in the middle of the largest travel industry recession since 9/11.

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your idea is one in which users are more than marginally committed (so not a marketplace where people buy only once on vacation) then you can avoid the flutter web problems by shipping it as a desktop app. Flutter on desktop is very responsive and it has the advantage that it's the native environment with the real Dart VM. Also if you want to do anything with hardware then it's a good way to go.

Desktop is AOT compiled, not a VM, I'm pretty sure. Which makes performance even better, then.

Certainly their hello world app starts extremely fast.

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+10 on point 3. Even as a highly technical CTO, it is shocking what outsourced dev agencies will try to do. I've seen dev agencies try to conclude engagements with a "successfully working app" but havent delivered any source code, or when source code is delivered it cannot actually be compiled into the successfully working app. As a technical CTO I can smell this a mile away and work it into SoWs, but I wonder how ma…

It makes me shudder to think people actually hire dev agencies to build their early stage product. Having worked with some in the past in a different life I absolutely despised those people for being both terrible engineers and people (my experience working with big outsourcing companies). Why hire people who don’t care that much to build something the founders definitely care a lot about? Are there any examples of t…

I work at a startup that outsourced its early dev, somehow got sold to a large company.

We had a technical CTO that really wrangled everyone, but he left not soon after we got bought out, dev has been a shitshow ever since.

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#215

> I'll never depend on a 3rd party dev as the main means of production again. He spent over half of his money on it as well. I've had more than one person come to me with their business idea, and they have a terrible website (or app) that they have spent 100, 200, or even 300k on. And it doesn't even work. If you aren't staring out WITH customers, you either have to code it your damn self, or have a technical co-foun…

I would wager heavily that this could've been a Shopify store. A few hundred bucks for a premium theme, a few hundred a month to run it, and maybe some overseas VAs at a few bucks an hour to help fill in the vendor/event details. OP's LinkedIn shows he's never worked at a very early stage startup. I really can't recommend that enough before starting a company - being immersed in a culture where things are scrappy hel…

Too many people are addicted to code and making things from scratch. Your suggestions are spot on.

Oddly enough developers' and contractors' costs usually expand to any budget size.

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#216

> I'll never depend on a 3rd party dev as the main means of production again. He spent over half of his money on it as well. I've had more than one person come to me with their business idea, and they have a terrible website (or app) that they have spent 100, 200, or even 300k on. And it doesn't even work. If you aren't staring out WITH customers, you either have to code it your damn self, or have a technical co-foun…

Seriously, sign me up for that contract. Give me 100k-300k for a single website? That website is gonna be a thing of beauty.

Heh. I worked with a guy that dropped at least 200K on his "prototype." The prototype was a mock up of the product, which looked like it worked if you moved through the demo in exactly the right way. It was all hard coded. He said it was a bargain, since it let him raise real money (a couple of million.) Of course, he spent all that too, along with most of his life savings. The company got no real traction and was eventually sold in a fire sale.

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#217

Shameless Plug. How do you sell before you build if what you're building is a game? I created https://diffudle.com/ a few months back without knowing what marketing, Idea Validation etc means. Wherever I posted, the overall sentiment was positive but the traffic to the site was still very low. Its peak was 1000 users but generally it hovered around 100 users a day. This is not enough to even sustain itself. Lately, p…

You don’t, and this is why “build an MVP to validate demand” is only directly applicable to B2B SaaS.

Some of the concepts are still relevant though - focus on the core gameplay loop before spending big on artwork, continual private playtesting as early as possible, etc etc. I think most of the success boils down to having a good sense of what’s fun.

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#218
This guy still doesn't get it even after spending 200k. The lesson should have been "does it solve a problem" and "how do I add value where others haven't". None of those other lessons matter if there's not answers to those questions. Really it's best to just stick to working for others if those concepts elude you to this degree.

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#219
post #191

I had two customers. One came to me after he couldn't get a company in the Ukraine to cooperate. He had already paid them $25k and the website was barely useful. This was an san fransisco exGoogle product manager with more money than sense, zero coding skills, and in love with subscription services. I charged him half for 2 months of work and got the website in front of paying customers. Then $1000 a month for mainte…

Probably bogged down by downloading too many pixels ;) On a serious note though there is something extremely impressive about someone with no coding experience creating a website that makes them money. Even if they're not coding. It'd be like asking someone who can't cook to open a successful restaurant. If it happens at all it's impressive, but doubly so if you don't even hire a chef you just figure it out as you go…

I'd say it's more like someone who has a successful restaurant learning to wash dishes. Adding a website to an already successful business that can manage without one is very different from basing a new business on a new technology.

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#220

I had two customers. One came to me after he couldn't get a company in the Ukraine to cooperate. He had already paid them $25k and the website was barely useful. This was an san fransisco exGoogle product manager with more money than sense, zero coding skills, and in love with subscription services. I charged him half for 2 months of work and got the website in front of paying customers. Then $1000 a month for mainte…

Lol, sell her the "hacker news hug of death plan" and put her website on the Cloudflare free plan. It's like an hour of work...

I'm still immensely grateful to all the HN folks who helped me recover from my hug of death a year or so ago by teaching me the Cloudflare tricks. I'm with Ghost Pro now instead of Wordpress, but man, IDK what I would have done without the Cloudflare advice in the meantime!
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