Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I want to lose every debate

sive.rs

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 386 posts

Re: I want to lose every debate

#351

Post by iinnPP »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #329
iinnPP wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't hold an opinion on this worth sharing, I was merely stating what I have heard from people beforehand as reasoning. I look at maps showing between 10-15% of Ukraine being of the Donbas region from 5+ random Google-provided sources. What source do you get the 20% from? As to the total erasure of Ukraine I am also unaware of any evidence that this is true. I always appreciate being informed and would love an aut…

> What source do you get the 20% from? The 20% figure might be outdated now after the Ukrainians liberated Khersonks'ka Oblast north of the Dnipro. The NYT most recently put the figure at 18%[0]. > As to the total erasure of Ukraine I am also unaware of any evidence that this is true. I always appreciate being informed and would love an authoritative source on this if you(or anyone) can provide it. The russians are o…

Thank you for the very thoughtful reply. I am reading it now but wanted to respond in a timely manner. I do try to keep my opinion on important events informed, but have been finding it increasingly difficult since Jan 2020.

I lean towards promoting a solution that doesn't turn this invasion into WW3. Preferably a solution that results in fewer deaths. That does also include worldwide deaths that for example may stem from the financial fallout of the war itself. As well as a comparison of lives saved/saveable using the money being spent.

I'm very aware this is a privileged position that I can justify while living in Canada. Knowing I would find it incredibly difficult if not impossible to maintain my position if the conflict was localized. I like to believe I would still lean to societal benefit, but for that I have zero confidence.

I primarily ponder on the options allowing for an eventual de-escalation being limited or even non-existent. Is there a route to an end of the invasion that you see as viable? What is needed to get there and who do you think could make it happen?

Thank you again for the informative response. I've come out with better information than I had this morning.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#353

Post by hbrn »

the_af wrote: post #350
hbrn wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sorry you find denouncing and rejecting Nazism is boring. Evidently, simply denouncing and rejecting does nothing to prevent it from emerging again. All the raping and murdering in Ukraine is currently done in the name of denouncing Nazism, yet it looks very much like Nazism. > you also misunderstood my prompt, which was to debate with people who believe what I listed, not debate with me Turns out debates don't…

> All the raping and murdering in Ukraine is currently done in the name of denouncing Nazism. Ah, yes, I guess if we had debated the "good parts" of Nazism then the invasion of Ukraine wouldn't have happened. > Despite your best effort, you still learned something today. Do you really think that's an honest debate tactic? Do you think that, when reading your last line, I will think "gee, this guy truly taught me some…

> Ah, yes, I guess if we had debated the "good parts" of Nazism then the invasion of Ukraine wouldn't have happened.

Kind of. If more time was spent deconstructing Nazism/Fascism, instead of simply repeating "Nazism bad" it would be much easier to notice it right under our (their) nose.

> I guess I learned this conversation is futile?

I'd suggest you to re-read your messages in this thread. Analyze their tone. You never attempted to have a conversation.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#354

Post by diffxx »

owenfi wrote: post #281

A corollary that helped me take criticism less personally: a friend once said “I ONLY like negative feedback”. They went on to explain that positive feedback/compliments weren’t helpful to them because they couldn’t grow from it. The starkness of the statement was what I needed to recognize it.

Interesting perspective. This requires a level of inner strength that many of us do not always have. Increasingly though I realize that I don't need a lot of verbal feedback. You can tell a lot just by people's physical reactions to you. And the corollary is that I notice that there are some people that I try and shut down with body language to get them to leave me alone.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#355

Post by sharadov »

jvm___ wrote: post #279
nibbleshifter wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing more tedious in adult life than some debate club weenie trying to turn every random fucking conversation into a debate. I strongly suspect debate club has a net negative impact on peoples social skills. It teaches a bunch of anti patterns to successful social interactions. Like, you will be shooting the shit with the lads down pub the once or twice you see them per year when this dickhead (and every…

This is a whole chapter in "How to win friends and influence people." Someone says something wrong in passing? Ignore it, move on. Someone says something you disagree with? Evaluate if the inevitable unresolved and probably heated argument that will happen when you make it an issue is worth the time, effort, and awkwardness for everyone else present. Someone says something exceptionally disagreeable? Just fucking lea…

This is life advice - print it and hang it.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#356

Post by BeetleB »

qwertox wrote: post #349
BeetleB wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would prefer to live in a society where it's considered a good thing to not murder others and if this were up for debate, I sure hope I would not get convinced of the opposite, which would mean "losing the debate" in the way the author means it. I'm going to be downvoted like crazy for saying this, but it seems you are making these statements with a feeling of safety because you are assuming the vast majority of…

Feels like the Republican vs. Libertarians issue. Like the author accidentally noticed that there are other valid point of views. "Maybe those LGBT groups do make a point and should be accepted and integrated just the way they are." But honestly, there are just facts which are settled in the larger community and trying to negate them just doesn't lead anywhere, when the fruitful discussion is in "the smaller issues".…

Your comment confuses me.

It sounds like you actually do not want to discuss these issues (which is fine), and that is different from debating to win on these issues. What I don't get is that while you do not want to explore these issues, why do you take issue with someone who does? When Derek sees that a large collection of people believe in something that he doesn't, he wants to know what they see/believe that he doesn't. If you don't want to, that's OK. But if he does, that should also be OK.

> like reconsidering the banning of women from any type of education

Your phrasing is telling. I didn't say anything about banning women from education, nor do the people I refer to in those countries advocate for it.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#357

Post by the_af »

hbrn wrote: post #353
the_af wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All the raping and murdering in Ukraine is currently done in the name of denouncing Nazism. Ah, yes, I guess if we had debated the "good parts" of Nazism then the invasion of Ukraine wouldn't have happened. > Despite your best effort, you still learned something today. Do you really think that's an honest debate tactic? Do you think that, when reading your last line, I will think "gee, this guy truly taught me some…

> Ah, yes, I guess if we had debated the "good parts" of Nazism then the invasion of Ukraine wouldn't have happened. Kind of. If more time was spent deconstructing Nazism/Fascism, instead of simply repeating "Nazism bad" it would be much easier to notice it right under our (their) nose. > I guess I learned this conversation is futile? I'd suggest you to re-read your messages in this thread. Analyze their tone. You ne…

So, do you really think that's an honest debate tactic? I noticed you like dodging.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#358

Post by hbrn »

the_af wrote: post #357
hbrn wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ah, yes, I guess if we had debated the "good parts" of Nazism then the invasion of Ukraine wouldn't have happened. Kind of. If more time was spent deconstructing Nazism/Fascism, instead of simply repeating "Nazism bad" it would be much easier to notice it right under our (their) nose. > I guess I learned this conversation is futile? I'd suggest you to re-read your messages in this thread. Analyze their tone. You ne…

So, do you really think that's an honest debate tactic? I noticed you like dodging .

I'm not using debate tactics and not accusing others of doing it. I'm just debating.

If you do want to switch topic to debate tactics, you should first re-read your own comments: they are full of strawman arguments, deflections, condescension and are quite demeaning in general. Hopefully acting like a butthurt teenager is a debate tactic too, not your personality.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#359

Post by the_af »

hbrn wrote: post #358
the_af wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, do you really think that's an honest debate tactic? I noticed you like dodging .

I'm not using debate tactics and not accusing others of doing it. I'm just debating. If you do want to switch topic to debate tactics, you should first re-read your own comments: they are full of strawman arguments, deflections, condescension and are quite demeaning in general. Hopefully acting like a butthurt teenager is a debate tactic too, not your personality.

"Butthurt teenager". Ah, resorting to insults now?

"Despite your best effort, you still learned something today."

How would you say the above line ranks in the goal of "I hope to lose every debate" and "just listen" mindset?

Re: I want to lose every debate

#360

Post by hbrn »

the_af wrote: post #359
hbrn wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not using debate tactics and not accusing others of doing it. I'm just debating. If you do want to switch topic to debate tactics, you should first re-read your own comments: they are full of strawman arguments, deflections, condescension and are quite demeaning in general. Hopefully acting like a butthurt teenager is a debate tactic too, not your personality.

"Butthurt teenager". Ah, resorting to insults now? "Despite your best effort, you still learned something today." How would you say the above line ranks in the goal of "I hope to lose every debate" and "just listen" mindset?

> "Butthurt teenager". Ah, resorting to insults now?

Again, re-read your own comments. I've matched a fraction of your insults and you're already getting upset.

> How would you say the above line ranks in the goal of "I hope to lose every debate" and "just listen" mindset?

It doesn't rank well at all. Good thing I never claimed to have a "just listen" mindset. In fact, I said I disagree with it.

Post reply on HN