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I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

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Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#201
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be a happy Flutter convert if the Web output was better.

I think they're working on it. There seems to be an HTML renderer now in addition to the canvas implementation.

The HTML renderer is actually what was first, canvas came later. The canvas is the first class implementation while the HTML one is a fallback for mobile performance and I assume if canvas is fast enough, HTML will be dropped as well.

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Flutter and cover all 3. Okay Flutter Web is pretty bad, but if you are cash strapped and need to move fast, Flutter is the way to go. I expect more and more startups to embrace Flutter, it is easily currently the best solution on the market (for 99% of app ideas). Yes native will always be better, but if you are a startup, your focus should be building an MVP and getting to product-market-fit as fast as possible…

I would be a happy Flutter convert if the Web output was better.

Try it after the recent 3.7 release, it seems like they fixed a lot of the performance issues, at least in my experience.

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be a happy Flutter convert if the Web output was better.

Not having used it but having recently considered it what's so bad about the web output?

It can often be a lot slower and laggier than the mobile and desktop experiences, for whatever reason. However they are working on improving it with WASM, Impeller (a new renderer which should be faster by being more suitable for Flutter specifically instead of Skia which was more general purpose), and so on.

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#204
post #52
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do the dirty tasks for a non-technical founder. Everybody he hires for a task does heavy corner cutting. Technical debt is enormous. Details are not taken care of. I like the guy, so I help him ignoring cost of opportunity. I do all the plumbing and fixing the tiny details and changes at 2 am. But that’s not sustainable. That’s not the way to build a business with prosperous future.

Do you have a stake in the business?

No. I don’t. Just helping. Because I like this elder gentleman. And he has growing revenue stream from his project.

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, why not React Native? I never heard anything bad about it in Android and iOS (except maybe the resource usage) and at least Microsoft is putting RN as first-tier framework in Windows nowadays.

Ironically, you can't use it for Web. You can't even share components, IME.

If you're using Expo (which I assume most are on RN) they have web support. This is via React Native Web, which is a separate project if you wanted to use that directly too.

Personally though, I've found the DX of Flutter far above RN. I always had random packages break on RN that I had to fix every time, while with Flutter most of what you need is already included in the framework, including a component UI library for Android and iOS.

[0] https://docs.expo.dev/workflow/web/

[1] https://github.com/necolas/react-native-web

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll make suggestions to anyone doing this: - For slightly more legal protection, the code should be in YOUR OWN git repo, not the dev agency's repo - If you are giving some upfront $ or milestone payment, you should also contractually now own the code up to that point in time - You should not declare a milestone success (and should not pay) until you can independently compile the app straight from git (front end and…

If you can do all this, you're either already a developer and don't need to outsource it, or you have the ability to learn how.

...or don't have time

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#207
post #9

I have a very high level of scepticism towards non-technical founders without deep pockets: 1. There's an agility to being able to change things yourself, at 2am if necessary. That's very important to startups. 2. There's a discipline to not accruing unreasonable technical debt of the type that will sink you two years in that you can't expect from someone who doesn't deeply care. 3. Managing devs generally requires u…

> I have a very high level of scepticism towards non-technical founders without deep pockets:

A relative of a friend is a Dr. that had a good idea for a useful product and hired a consultant to build it. After about 18 months and a little over $1M had been invested, the consultant wanted more money and I got pulled in to review everything. What I found was:

1. Work was farmed to an offshore team that made terrible technical decisions and were unable to produce working software

2. Consultant and the offshore team took many detours to increase scope and add lots of new, useful features. Of course, they did this before completing existing ones, so the result was a bloated application with about 20 features at the 80% state. Only logging in actually worked.

3. Too much infrastructure too early. High availability, redundant infrastructure up and running at AWS for a cool $10-15k/month. Keep in mind the product hadn't even gotten to MVP and that's also close to the $20k/month my own startup was spending at AWS for a messaging app for full geo-redundancy w/over 2M active users and capable of handling 1B messages/month.

In short, the Dr. got taken for a huge ride. My advice was to make sure that they were able to get their hands on all of the source code and other IP and then wind it all down.

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#208
post #191

I had two customers. One came to me after he couldn't get a company in the Ukraine to cooperate. He had already paid them $25k and the website was barely useful. This was an san fransisco exGoogle product manager with more money than sense, zero coding skills, and in love with subscription services. I charged him half for 2 months of work and got the website in front of paying customers. Then $1000 a month for mainte…

Probably bogged down by downloading too many pixels ;) On a serious note though there is something extremely impressive about someone with no coding experience creating a website that makes them money. Even if they're not coding. It'd be like asking someone who can't cook to open a successful restaurant. If it happens at all it's impressive, but doubly so if you don't even hire a chef you just figure it out as you go…

Her product isn't the website. It's the same reason Craigslist is still in business. Craigslist works very very well for what it needs to do. In fact, HN works well and could of easily been built in the 90s. We create usernames, post here and share content. No need for tons of CSS. Now I'm wondering if Ghost Blog would handle load better...

No reason for a non-technical person to spend thousands of dollars to build a basic informative website.

Re: I lost $209k of my own money trying to start a business

#209

> I'll never depend on a 3rd party dev as the main means of production again. He spent over half of his money on it as well. I've had more than one person come to me with their business idea, and they have a terrible website (or app) that they have spent 100, 200, or even 300k on. And it doesn't even work. If you aren't staring out WITH customers, you either have to code it your damn self, or have a technical co-foun…

Yeah, don't want to say the industry, but our software suppliers absolutely hose us on a regular basis. We're theoretically supposed to be held to a high standard, or at least our customers are very demanding with quality.

Our suppliers routinely deliver junk, yet somehow have the ability to just say "it is what it is, take it or leave it". It's not a pure outsourcing type of arrangement either, and they have other direct relationships to our customers, also.

These aren't some randos with questionable reputation. These are big industry players, one of whom a lot of people in engineering would be familiar with, yet they seem to be able to launder their responsibilities.

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