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I want to lose every debate

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Re: I want to lose every debate

#301

Post by jancsika »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #271
SuoDuanDao wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thank you. If I'm ever in a position of choosing a co-founder again, I'll probably ask potential candidates their opinions on debate and treat any positive sentiment towards debate as a negative signal. Few things are more tiring in an already difficult slog than needing to go to war every time you'd like to introduce a change. I know some people are energized by debate, but I'd rather work with someone who builds my…

Your position/preference seems to arise from your identification with your own ideas, which is one of the most fundamental differences in the realm of people's response to "debate". There's absolutely nothing wrong with identifying with your own ideas, and indeed, it will naturally lead to a negative experience if you have to interact with someone who attacks those ideas. However, there are people who don't experienc…

There's a big difference between these two:

1. Co-founder who clearly signals respect and self-reflection, and who much later reveals they have a penchant for the occasional debate and dis-attachment from their own ideas.

2. A co-founder who signals they like debates in a candidate meeting.

I rankly speculate here on HN that if OP always avoids #2, not only will nothing bad happen as a result, but they will also decrease the chance of choosing a bad candidate.

I further rankly speculate this for any founder.

HN debates are fun, but they hide the fact that debate is a low-effort tool. Like drinking alcohol, it can be useful. But if it moves from being a mere implementation detail to becoming part of the API in a candidate meeting: run!

Re: I want to lose every debate

#302

Post by hbrn »

Acutulus wrote: post #201
nibbleshifter wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing more tedious in adult life than some debate club weenie trying to turn every random fucking conversation into a debate. I strongly suspect debate club has a net negative impact on peoples social skills. It teaches a bunch of anti patterns to successful social interactions. Like, you will be shooting the shit with the lads down pub the once or twice you see them per year when this dickhead (and every…

I enjoy watching the occasional political twitch/youtube streamer or speaker. I couldn't tell you why; I don't feel that most of them leave me feeling any wiser after the conversations end. But the times I come across positions that I haven't traditionally considered or agreed with being well-stated and expounded upon is really enjoyable and usually makes it worth the minutes or hours burned having it playing lightly…

This is quite interesting, because I find Vaush to be a perfect match for your description: absolutely insufferable debate bro and a hypocrite (the whole "living your values" discussion was very showing).

And Destiny to be a fairly reasonable mostly good-faith debater.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#304

Post by BeetleB »

qwertox wrote: post #272

I don't get it. There are many sex workers which are forced to do this job, some even under threat. I also don't see an issue using analogies to explain things. Was the Hindu person poor itself? If so, how has this person dealt with sickness in the family? Any religion is a perfect recipe for peace, it just depends on the fairness and good will of those practicing it. Why should partying not be a good thing as long a…

> I certainly wouldn't want to lose a debate about why murdering someone can be considered a good thing.

Serious question: What is the benefit of winning this debate?

Re: I want to lose every debate

#305

Post by manquer »

karaterobot wrote: post #284
rocknor wrote: post #275

> The Hindu explains why poverty doesn’t upset her. So according to the author me and my community are not upset by poverty and hence are not doing anything to fix it. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/india-lifted... https://gdc.unicef.org/resource/report-india-lifted-271-mill... Who is this author again and why are people listening to a charlatan like him?

> her I think you're extrapolating. Author is very clearly just talking about an individual, not a group. No need to get outraged.

But he is, he characterized that person as a Hindu,he didn't say a friend or a neighbour or whatever else he could have described her by.

The implication in labelling her hindu is that this a common or known position amongst Hindus?.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#306

Post by manquer »

russelldjimmy wrote: post #278
rocknor wrote: post #275

> The Hindu explains why poverty doesn’t upset her. So according to the author me and my community are not upset by poverty and hence are not doing anything to fix it. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/india-lifted... https://gdc.unicef.org/resource/report-india-lifted-271-mill... Who is this author again and why are people listening to a charlatan like him?

It seems to me that the author spoke about one particular Hindu they met who was not upset by their state of poverty. It’s not clear to me that they claimed that your community is not upset by it, and is not doing anything to fix it. Help me with clarity.

If it has nothing do with her being hindu or beliefs generated from religion then why is that fact she is hindu relevant ?.

It is like saying a short or bald person came to me and said poverty doesn't bother them.

If I was short or bald then I am going to be offended by that.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#307

Post by iinnPP »

BasedGroyper99 wrote: post #258
iinnPP wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>close relatives who are denying that killing other people is bad Nobody, except people with legitimate mental health issues, thinks killing is a "good" thing. Your close relatives believe Russia is on defense. Kind of like how the US was on defense in Iraq. So, from their perspective, the way to save lives is to negotiate an end to the war where Russia takes that tiny bit of land, and Ukraine stops being considered…

> Nobody, except people with legitimate mental health issues, thinks killing is a "good" thing. But what if a woman wants to kill her unborn child?

They don't see it as a person.

Canada as a country doesn't see an unborn baby as a person for example.

That is not a statement I am making or denying. Though I have noted that this definition could be used as a justification in someone's view.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#308

Post by pictur »

You can't understand people with empty arguments. on the contrary, you get prejudices or wrong impressions about them. I think it makes more sense to listen to people to understand. If you want to understand.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#309

Post by hbrn »

tsuujin wrote: post #21

I’d like to offer an alternative framing: don’t debate at all, just listen. While high school debate did teach me many positive lessons and I am thankful that I spent four years of my life doing it, many years later I have come to understand that it also taught me something truly negative: that the point of a conversation is to win. I have put a lot of time in my adult life unlearning that trait, and reflecting on th…

> don’t debate at all, just listen

I disagree (pun intended).

Debating allows you to understand your own position better, e.g. is it based on information, intuition, values, preference, experience, or bias?

And it forces another party to do the same, which allows you to better decide how to handle disagreements.

E.g. if their position is based on preference, we can agree to disagree and move on.

If it's based on a bias, I will value their opinion less.

If someone has a different knowledge, that's something we can (and should) resolve asap.

If our values are different we will never be able to resolve it and it's better to avoid conflict.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#310

Post by dgfitz »

BeetleB wrote: post #304
qwertox wrote: post #272

I don't get it. There are many sex workers which are forced to do this job, some even under threat. I also don't see an issue using analogies to explain things. Was the Hindu person poor itself? If so, how has this person dealt with sickness in the family? Any religion is a perfect recipe for peace, it just depends on the fairness and good will of those practicing it. Why should partying not be a good thing as long a…

> I certainly wouldn't want to lose a debate about why murdering someone can be considered a good thing. Serious question: What is the benefit of winning this debate?

I sure wouldn’t be upset if someone murdered Putin, ideally 11 months ago.
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