Not every opinion is worth your time.
I want to lose every debate
231–240 of 386 posts
Re: I want to lose every debate
#232Vigorous debate is a good thing. It's about learning to turn it off afterwards. Debate at its best is where the issues are at stake -- not the relationship. Getting clear on that is an important communicative and emotional skill. The problem with "wanting to lose" in this post is how fake and sentimental that attitude can become, against our best intentions. If both sides can put their cards on the table, that's a mo…
> The problem with "wanting to lose" in this post is how fake and sentimental that attitude can become, against our best intentions.
Yes. Plus it can seem condescending. I wouldn't want to debate anything with someone adopting some sort of "philosophical master" stance that "through losing" will achieve enlightening. I prefer the other person gets angry if need be, which at least is honest, rather than trying to play some Socratic bullshit on me.
It comes across as "I'm better than you, let me show you that to lose is actually to win".
Re: I want to lose every debate
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you think about losing every debate?
aw man, you're gonna force me to read this? fuck. ok. give me a minute. ... Okay, I think that as expected the word salad doesn't do anything to expand on the subject; it's another grossly compact attempt at telling everyone what a crazy and interesting life he's had without going into detail beyond the barest mention that he was somewhere and talked to someone; serves yet again as a form of name-dropping; proves abs…
Thank you for that. I appreciate your conversation about the content of his article rather than the content of his character.
Like others, I have no idea who Sivers is.
Re: I want to lose every debate
#234[deleted]
Re: I want to lose every debate
#235I'm sorry, but I just can't read this. Ever since I put out an album on CDBaby in like 2004, which was Mr Sivers project at the time, I have been subjected to an endless stream of daily self promotion from this man. Somehow he evades all spam blocks and all attempts to remove myself from his lists. I have never seen another human being so self absorbed who consistently just had to have their meandering thoughts manua…
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Re: I want to lose every debate
#236This reminds of "Argue well by losing" [1]. The purpose of debate shouldn't be to win or lose, but to reach consensus.
In addition, the ancients of the classical world regarded "Rhetoric" (ie the ability to debate) as being the highest form of intelligence. It required not only a deep understanding of the reasoning behind your own opinion but also an equally deep understanding of that of your collocutors. Ie, you should be able to argue in favour of his/her point as well as your own, and as well as he/she can. That takes wisdom and humility that most today seem to lack.
[1] - https://haacked.com/archive/2013/10/21/argue-well-by-losing....
Re: I want to lose every debate
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
I recently read a similar point phrased in a way that really resonated: “if you’re right, you’ll still be right in five minutes” (so you might as well listen carefully in case you’re wrong).
While this is good advice, it is still in a debate-mindset where, ultimately, it is about "winning" a conversation. But if you argue with someone who holds factually wrong opinions is it truly winning "if you showed them" and they think "what an asshole" and move on? That type of person is practised at brushing off a debate loss. That means if you enjoy winning such a debate it tells more about you than about the per…
Sounds like Socratic method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method
Re: I want to lose every debate
#238[flagged]
> > The Muslim explains why Islamic law is a perfect recipe for peace.
> I can't even fathom how someone could convincingly argue that. And honestly that makes this whole post kind of ridiculous to me
This might depend on their definition of "peace". If they - very much tautologically - define "peace" as "Everyone is living in accordance with Islamic law." then according to that definition Islamic law certainly is a perfect recipe for peace.
That'd just not be the usual understanding of peace.
Re: I want to lose every debate
#239This TED talk “on being wrong” has stuck with me over the years.
https://www.ted.com/talks/kathryn_schulz_on_being_wrong
Especially the part about the coyote in loony tunes running off the edge and not falling until they realize they are wrong. That’s what feeling right feels like… until you realize you’re wrong.
Re: I want to lose every debate
#240I’d like to offer an alternative framing: don’t debate at all, just listen. While high school debate did teach me many positive lessons and I am thankful that I spent four years of my life doing it, many years later I have come to understand that it also taught me something truly negative: that the point of a conversation is to win. I have put a lot of time in my adult life unlearning that trait, and reflecting on th…
I was told, by someone I was dating, many years ago, that they thought that when they were speaking, I was thinking about what I was going to say next. I didn't fully understand that comment for more than a decade.
This is a highly insightful take. Thanks. You nailed it.
Learning to listen may not come naturally for some of us. It's a skill that requires practice and reinforcement.