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I want to lose every debate

sive.rs

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Re: I want to lose every debate

#121

Post by scns »

nibbleshifter wrote: post #49
tsuujin wrote: post #21

I’d like to offer an alternative framing: don’t debate at all, just listen. While high school debate did teach me many positive lessons and I am thankful that I spent four years of my life doing it, many years later I have come to understand that it also taught me something truly negative: that the point of a conversation is to win. I have put a lot of time in my adult life unlearning that trait, and reflecting on th…

There is nothing more tedious in adult life than some debate club weenie trying to turn every random fucking conversation into a debate. I strongly suspect debate club has a net negative impact on peoples social skills. It teaches a bunch of anti patterns to successful social interactions. Like, you will be shooting the shit with the lads down pub the once or twice you see them per year when this dickhead (and every…

It might originate from brain physiology. Daniel Amen had done 5000 brain scans 20 years ago, no idea how many until now. From one of his books i learned that contrarian behaviour can come from a disfunction in the Cingulate cortex.

Whatever i say, the first thing my mother says 95% of the time is "No" or another dismissal. It was astounding to see my son acting the same way, answering "No, thats wrong" to things he doesn't even know!

I have been really contrarian for most part of my life. But i realized how annoying that behaviour is and made an active effort to change it. Through repetition it became a habit to respond positively or neutral.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#122

Post by whstl »

nibbleshifter wrote: post #63
kuu wrote: post #9

I would say that more importantly than winning or losing a debate is to know which debate you should participate.

About 99% of the time IRL, debating is pointless and just annoying to everyone present.

Yeah, couldn't agree more. They also can be annoying online, so people just ignore. On Reddit you often see very long, deep, threads with 1-karma posts that nobody even bothers to vote for. On HN those long debates not only take a lot of space, and you often see moderators telling people to stop.

Sometimes you gotta preemptively "lose" a debate, by not answering at all. At most a "Alright, I get your point but I disagree" which also doesn't really add much to the discussion.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#123

Post by trompetenaccoun »

dtx1 wrote: post #94

[flagged]

Convincing is in the eye of the beholder. It doesn't surprise me anymore because at this point I've seen more than enough of this sort naivety/idiocy that's massively trending again in the West. It's not a new phenomenon:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/museum-acquires-bertrand-russe...

Re: I want to lose every debate

#124

Post by eggie5 »

pjerem wrote: post #119
eggie5 wrote: post #76

Years later, still puzzling over Thomas Jefferson's passivity at Philadelphia, John Adams would claim that "during the whole time I sat with him in Congress, I never heard him utter three sentence together" Jefferson, himself would one day advise a grandson, "when I hear another express an opinion which is not mine, I say to myself, he has a right to his opinion, as I to mine." And "Why should I question it. His erro…

> Why should I question it. His error does me no injury Isn't that an incredibly dangerous behavior especially in political debates ? I mean, wrong political opinions do injure people. Maybe not the other people in the room but the people who elected them. Do I miss something ?

As Adams agreed, it was quite the perplexing philosophy. However, who won in the end? The firebrand Adams or stoic Jefferson???

Re: I want to lose every debate

#126

Post by messe »

ajfwe wrote: post #111
dtx1 wrote: post #94

[flagged]

I have no idea how someone could not convincingly accept that. In modern western society, adultery, one of the worse possible civilization destroying crimes, is hardly even regarded as truly evil and is glorified in media. Especially when women do it.

Can you share some examples of media glorifying it? That hardly seems to be a common thing.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#128

Post by legends2k »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #113
atoav wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listening doesn't mean you say nothing, otherwise the other side will (eventually) just stop. Listening means asking the right questions. Imagine someone has an out-there idea. Listening means you go along with them and have them explain it to you. And you play the nice, slightly curious, but not too curious person that has an open mind and ask the doubting questions. You know more Judo, less boxing, instead of punch…

It reads like you're saying people should fake being open to arguments while actually already having made up their mind from the start. >Imagine someone has an out-there idea How would one know the idea is out-there until one has listened and understood what someone else is saying? >And you play the nice, slightly curious, but not too curious person that has an open mind... I don't have to "play" this part, unless I…

One won't know, of course. I thought the whole point of saying "Imagine" is given such a situation, how to deal with it. Of course, while listening if it isn't an out-there idea, listen, converse and follow up.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#129

Post by sublinear »

sokoloff wrote: post #24
tsuujin wrote: post #21

I’d like to offer an alternative framing: don’t debate at all, just listen. While high school debate did teach me many positive lessons and I am thankful that I spent four years of my life doing it, many years later I have come to understand that it also taught me something truly negative: that the point of a conversation is to win. I have put a lot of time in my adult life unlearning that trait, and reflecting on th…

I recently read a similar point phrased in a way that really resonated: “if you’re right, you’ll still be right in five minutes” (so you might as well listen carefully in case you’re wrong).

Very good advice. A classic debate tactic is to coerce the opponent to hastily misspeak and then force them to defend their poorly worded statements. Cooler heads usually prevail. The classic defense is to slow it down by asking them to clarify their position. You can take it from there if you want to debate or not.

Most people aren't debating you on purpose so there's no point as they continue to rubber duck (and maybe even thank you later). In case they really are in it for a debate, then by all means proceed.

Re: I want to lose every debate

#130

Post by nhooyr »

mihaic wrote: post #95

The first time I saw US-style collegiate debate, it seemed like a great mind-game. Over time I've come to consider it though as the sign of a bullshitting culture, where the truth is irrelevant, and winning the argument is all that matters. Professional debating and the article both feel wrong since they're missing the key element to me: synthesis of opposing ideas into something more than each individual side. It mi…

What do you mean US-style? As far as I'm aware, such debate clubs exist all throughout the world. The most famous of which are probably the Cambridge Union and the Oxford Union both in the UK.
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