511–520 of 659 posts
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> It is weird when people take a class specifically because of that reason though. Really? I know people who specifically chose their entire major based on the ratio of women in that major.
It is probably not weird in the hormone-addled mind of a teenager but yeah, I find it to be some combination of weird, pervy, sleazy, misogynistic, etc.
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> I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: >> No unwanted advances It seems very appalling when you focus on the bits you don't like and ignore the bits like "no unwanted advances".
I didn't ignore that, but chose to focus on the fact that other commenters have seemed to ignore all the problematic lines lines completely surrounding those three words. There can be only willing advances between the person making the advancing and the the person it is advanced on, but in the completely wrong environment can affect everyone else who has to be in an environment who has to be in the same environment.…
Well, honestly, I dunno what to say - people who are getting mad that their peers are hooking up can't very well petition[1] to stop other people from hooking up.
> A later comment by the professor makes explicit the harm being done:
>> Even worse, some women in the class seem oblivious to this or don't care, while the majority of them are insulted and hurt by this.
So? That's just a different way of saying "People who don't get dates get hurt and angry". We already know that.
We also know that the professor in this case doesn't know that the majority of them are insulted and hurt, because the professor in this case did not actually do a survey of the class.
After all, even if only 49% of the class are oblivious or happy with the arrangement, that doesn't scream to me "Something wrong is going on here".
[1] Well, they can but then they look stupid.
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It depends, I made a sister comment that say joining a yoga class or whatever is ok, but team leading a lab full of women to hit on them is not. Tutoring women to hit on them or even “see if I get lucky” is not. It is a conflict of interest clearly. Even just having a bunch of guys in a class they have no intention of studying for or completing just to get lucky is clearly off. Yes people meet each other in jobs and…
>Tutoring women to hit on them or even “see if I get lucky” is not. It is a conflict of interest clearly. A "conflict of interest" arises when someone is incentivized to act in a way that conflicts with their professional responsibility. E.g. if a surgeon gets paid for a surgery even if the patient doesn't need it, that's a conflict of interest. There is no professional responsibility for someone auditing a class. >E…
1. I said tutoring not auditing.
2. What? Non sequitur?
3. People can meet each other: at bars, walking the dog, on dating sites, at Everest base camp, whatever. 99.9999% are ok.
Meeting by becoming the person leading the lab for women who need that lab to complete their education. Nope.
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> Because the people complaining aren’t reporting poor behavior, but your own admission? No, I said that the complainers who are complaining have NOT experienced poor behaviour, so what on earth makes you think that the poor behaviour must exist but is unreported?
I literally said, and have been saying the opposite. Maybe read next time?
> The linked questions mentions that this has created an uncomfortable environment for female undergraduates -- but no allegations of illegal behavior.
>> According to one person anyway. We haven’t surveyed the class, correct?
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It would be demoralizing because your attractiveness shouldn’t factor into whether you can get academic help
Why not? This is reality and how the world works. Attractive men and women get promoted more easily, get better service in bars and restaurants, etc… to infinity. This idea that it’s more worthwhile to wail at the sky about how the world works rather than acknowledge it and seek to take advantage of other areas of life where the scales are tipped in your favor fucking mystifies me.
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There's a widespread lack of male role models, absentee fathers, and anything and everything male bashing. The ladies could be mentioning to the guys specific constructive feedback, because the guys probably don't know how they're failing or how they're making others feel. The surprising and shocking secret of being a ladies' man, is underwhelming and doesn't get press: being human and treating others as human accord…
It's not the classes's student's moral responsibility to teach these men. But it turns out that you are somewhat right in the sense that the professor and the answerers think that something student-let eventually has the most promise, to show the women that they can protect themselves by student-organized activities to draw attention to the issue.
It's quite interesting that if a college woman picked a class where she is more likely to find dates or a husband, that this situation is not seen as immoral, dangerous, threatening, criminal, or villainized.
> ...to show the women that they can protect themselves...
What exactly are these adult women, capable of choice and agency, protecting themselves from?
From heterosexual males asking them out on a date? From possibly deciding to be tutored by "smart" heterosexual males that know the subject material? In any individual situations, aren't these women capable of reporting any criminal wrong doing or harassment?
If these women are not capable of free will and have mental disabilities then maybe they need a 24/7 caregiver assigned to them, but somehow don't think that's the case.
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I'm curious why you interpreted the GP's comment this way. In my experience "find a mate" typically means "find a life partner". This is similar to the usage of the term in the original article ("future wife"). I see no reason to think that someone who says "it's hard to find a mate" would leer at someone or call someone they barely know their "mate" prior to being in a serious relationship.
I didn't interpret. The parent comment used the word mate. The word leer refers to the leching that was discused in the article. The article says, "a number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place". Lech and leer are semantically related words. [1] [1] https://thesaurus.plus/related/leer/lech_after
Yes, but not in the context of calling their "prospective cuddlybear" a mate.
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"guys being guys", "people find their partners in college so it's ok!", "men are the real victims so they're justified / understandable", "nothing is wrong so long as it's not sexual assault". grossest comment section i've seen on this site in forever
Citing article: > there are no unwanted advances Could you explain, what exactly is wrong with it?
I'd guess the people doing this gaming probably think it's clever, fun, and fair play (designed by-and-for hormonal college students). Maybe all the school needs, to handle the problem without scandal or lawsuits, is for the students doing it to be called before a dean, who says it's disrupting class, and to save the dating efforts for extracurricular environments, not taint the academics. If they don't seem to get i…
Then we get:
>Oh no I only joined to rec league soccer team to play soccer not so that lecherous guys can hit on me.
I'm OK with the idea that there are certain situations where it isn't OK of approach women, but online at least there always seems to be a reason why any given situation is the wrong one.
> This might be hard, as no unwanted advances are taking place. We simply have students excelling at the course, and drawing-in a crowd. I should've been more clear with my "leching" comment. Still, it seems harassing in nature. It seems increasingly that society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues, and outside those strictly delimited places, men are to be…
I think one people miss is that lack of interaction can be a form of harassment. >we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "private free tutoring sessions", etc). Some of the young students in my class take up these offers, and this further demoralizes other female students seeing this happen (i.e. only attracti…
I don't think you actually think, that - be honest with yourself, have you ever spoke up on behalf on incels, claiming that they are actually a group of harassed males because females are ignoring them?