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Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

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Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#451

Post by sugarpile »

spiritplumber wrote: post #348
nhchris wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less attractive girls get less male attention no matter what. Why would it be any more demoralizing if that attention comes with tutoring? Why would it be distracting? It seems everyone is complaining except the girls getting tutored. And if they did complain, if some guy was pushy or wouldn't take no for an answer, then deal with him the same as any other such guy - that they're attending a class for the sake of dat…

Because it can be very dehumanizing. "Even in a STEM class, I can't escape being unattractive". At minimum, it'll make me less likely to want to excel. (Been there)

This is the hand they have been dealt. The solution is to detach your motivation and happiness from caring about how you are perceived. Not wishing the real world was complicit in your denial of reality. The only person whose opinion on yourself which holds any weight is your own.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#452

Post by sugarpile »

weakfish wrote: post #332
nhchris wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less attractive girls get less male attention no matter what. Why would it be any more demoralizing if that attention comes with tutoring? Why would it be distracting? It seems everyone is complaining except the girls getting tutored. And if they did complain, if some guy was pushy or wouldn't take no for an answer, then deal with him the same as any other such guy - that they're attending a class for the sake of dat…

It would be demoralizing because your attractiveness shouldn’t factor into whether you can get academic help

Why not? This is reality and how the world works. Attractive men and women get promoted more easily, get better service in bars and restaurants, etc… to infinity.

This idea that it’s more worthwhile to wail at the sky about how the world works rather than acknowledge it and seek to take advantage of other areas of life where the scales are tipped in your favor fucking mystifies me.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#453

Post by IncRnd »

throway33 wrote: post #358
IncRnd wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone experiencing this drawback, consider not calling your prospective cuddlybear a "mate" or leering at them when auditing their classes.

I'm curious why you interpreted the GP's comment this way. In my experience "find a mate" typically means "find a life partner". This is similar to the usage of the term in the original article ("future wife"). I see no reason to think that someone who says "it's hard to find a mate" would leer at someone or call someone they barely know their "mate" prior to being in a serious relationship.

I didn't interpret.

The parent comment used the word mate.

The word leer refers to the leching that was discused in the article. The article says, "a number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place". Lech and leer are semantically related words. [1]

[1] https://thesaurus.plus/related/leer/lech_after

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#454

Post by em-bee »

zozbot234 wrote: post #242
nhchris wrote: post #43

> This might be hard, as no unwanted advances are taking place. We simply have students excelling at the course, and drawing-in a crowd. I should've been more clear with my "leching" comment. Still, it seems harassing in nature. It seems increasingly that society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues, and outside those strictly delimited places, men are to be…

> It seems increasingly that society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues Isn't that the definition of "dating" though? If you're not at a previously designated "date" you're not really dating, you're just hanging out as friends. You can still try to show off good qualities that would hopefully raise the other person's interest. Sometimes people who hang out…

it is, and that's the problem. in my opinion, dating is really the wrong way to meet a partner. it is a high-stakes activity where the first impression decides everything without any second chances.

Sometimes people who hang out as friends even get involved quite closely romantically

because that is really the better way to find a partner. someone you already know and are friends with.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#455

Post by ifyoubuildit »

sacnoradhq wrote: post #431
ifyoubuildit wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be ridiculous to possibly interpret this instead as young hetero men looking for opportunities where they have something to offer? Or should they only look for sexual opportunities where they are outclassed by their peers?

While the thirsty may equate to "drug" users, love lacks math(s). There's plenty of CEO women with mechanic husbands. Station is somewhat orthogonal to quality, but not completely. I'm most depressed that the prevalent attitude of 20's-30's somethings (men and women) tends to be maximizing hookups, binge drinking, and self-indulgence. Read a book, mentor a kid in high school, raise a service animal, donate blood, vol…

I'm not sure if I follow. Maybe you were thinking I meant "outclassed" literally?

I just mean this seems like a case of men competing for womens attention in an arena where they have some kind of competitive advantage against the other men around them.

If you can't go to the bar and be better looking than the guys around you, why not go to a class where you can be more helpful than the guys around you?

As much as it creeps people out to say it out loud, a lot of social life is transactional and competitive.

If you want friends or lovers, you have to have something to offer to them, and it has to be more valuable than what other people are offering.

Some people don't have to find clever ways to make this work, or to think about this at all, because they are naturally valuable in some way. These guys are probably not that.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#456

Post by CuriousCosmic »

type-r wrote: post #411
bitmunk wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say there's 20 Bobs in your class, and they are pushy, not pushy because that would be harrasment ;) Also the Bobs don't give a shit about the class, they just got in to talk about [INSERT ANNOYING HOBBY]. It's totally okay if you say something that's totally not equivalent.

The specific numbers would make a big impact, and it depends alot on what we define as 'harassment'. Is it 20 among a class of 600? Or is it 20 among a class of 50? How pushy are they about it? Do they stop if I tell them I don't care once? twice? twenty? These are all relevant questions but it feels like many folks are automatically treating it as if they make up half the class and they're doing the absolute maximum…

Worth considering that with the post in question, these male students are auditing the class so in general they have no consequences if they fail. They are there solely for the purpose of trying to sleep with younger female students and need to place no consideration on their academics.

And as for how pushy they are, according to the author, these male students are trying to take on a perception of authority (acting like instructors/TAs during classes) which implies some amount of attempted coercion (whether explicit or implicit) is likely taking place.

This type of power dynamic is really dangerous and it's a matter of time before somebody particularly scummy takes part and ends up victimizing one of the female students who are actually trying to pass the class.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#457

Post by klyrs »

murrkat wrote: post #273
jhanschoo wrote: post #198

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

Is there not a chance one of the young men offering open labs or tutoring might, in fact, be intelligent, enthusiastic about the sciences and decent ?

A decent tutor's first and foremost goal is to educate their students. If a student makes advances on a decent tutor, the tutor will rebuff them, for concern that it will detract from their attention and the quality of the lesson. That's not what these guys are up to.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#458

Post by jojobas »

GalenErso wrote: post #20
gedy wrote: post #15

People can tsk tsk this, but it's damn hard to find a mate if you are not in the top 20% of (straight) men, and basically requires you to be aggressive like this. You may be praised for being a "nice guy" by being passive, but it will not get you dates.

As a woman, I can speak on experience that women will run away from any space men try to invade to seek us, whether it's dating apps, classes, bars, etc. The last thing I want is for a horde of thirsty men to chase me.

Men invade dating apps to seek women? Colour me shocked, run for your lives!

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#459

Post by CuriousCosmic »

throwntoday wrote: post #210
troupe wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She specifically said that some of the upperclassmen were helping run the labs which sounds like it would benefit everyone.

I took that as within their lab groups. As-in sitting with their group of 4 or so, they led the group work. Honestly, whatever their motives, that kind of interaction is what group work is for. Having students that can lead and communicate with peers is invaluable.

This works great until someone rejects their advances and in retaliation the male student (who is auditing the class so they have no consequences for failure) sabotages the female student's labs and therefore their grade.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#460

Post by klyrs »

sugarpile wrote: post #452
weakfish wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be demoralizing because your attractiveness shouldn’t factor into whether you can get academic help

Why not? This is reality and how the world works. Attractive men and women get promoted more easily, get better service in bars and restaurants, etc… to infinity. This idea that it’s more worthwhile to wail at the sky about how the world works rather than acknowledge it and seek to take advantage of other areas of life where the scales are tipped in your favor fucking mystifies me.

> Why not? This is reality and how the world works.

Why not hire based on attractiveness and promote based on blowjobs? This is reality and how the world works.

... alternatively, we could strive to make the world a better place.

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