Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service • Hacker News Board

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#341

Post by kcb » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:29 AM UTC

fragmede wrote: post #302

joe-collins wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're so intelligent and decent, why are they relying on such disturbing tactics to meet women in the first place?

Because they are, in fact, decent, and find going to frat parties to engage with a drunk girl who can't properly consent, or hiring a prostitute, to be reprehensible. Online dating doesn't work unless you're in the top X% of attractiveness, so what's a college student to do? They're not generally rich enough to garner the attention of women that way, and they're competing against a larg pool of older men who are .

> Online dating doesn't work unless you're in the top X% of attractiveness

I find that most people that say this only attempt to match with people in the top X% of attractiveness.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#342

Post by greggarious » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:29 AM UTC

nhchris wrote: post #43

> This might be hard, as no unwanted advances are taking place. We simply have students excelling at the course, and drawing-in a crowd. I should've been more clear with my "leching" comment. Still, it seems harassing in nature. It seems increasingly that society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues, and outside those strictly delimited places, men are to be…

I think one people miss is that lack of interaction can be a form of harassment.

>we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "private free tutoring sessions", etc). Some of the young students in my class take up these offers, and this further demoralizes other female students seeing this happen (i.e. only attractive women being offered tutoring sessions).

Imagine how it must feel to be sincerely interested, possibly struggling because they didn't have a great K-12 experience and thus didn't have things like pre-Calc or AP credits and then... being brushed aside so someone can "tutor" their crush 1:1?

Speaking as someone who's had the unpleasant experience of having someone treat me differently at work based on if I'm "datable", it's incredibly demoralizing, it makes you want to leave an entire field. On my end it made me leave a specific strain of research, but had it happened earlier on I'd have probably switched majors entirely.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#343

Post by abigail95 » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:29 AM UTC

t-writescode wrote: post #131

dymk wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Birth rates are tanking because of increased access to contraceptives and people having the wealth and freedom to enjoy their 20s and 30s unburdened by children

> people having the wealth and freedom to enjoy their 20s and 30s unburdened by children and people *not* having the wealth and freedom to have children, being burdened by 80+ hour work weeks to pay rent on a place they'll never own or have capital in. Listen to the millenials and gen z'ers before you make bold accusations.

you need an enormous income before you have kids at the replacement rate, many multiples of the cost of their care.

in every meaningful sense the income/fertility relationship is negative.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#344

Post by bitmunk » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:29 AM UTC

nhchris wrote: post #136

I-love-india wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you just to treat women with respect. The issue here is intention. The intention here is not about teaching or learning in the class. But its using that pretence in fact distrupting the intention of the class and people there. How do you like your intention distrupted? How about by unattractive slobs who are objectifying you and trying to be "helpful" and trying tricks they found on internet If someone is trying…

You've assumed a great deal more about their behavior than was written. The professor even states "no unwanted advances are taking place", contradicting your characterization. Indeed, your extra assumptions would qualify as 'disruption', and I imagine the professor would be well within her rights to expel such students. But merely offering, not pushing, assistance, or even less "showboating", letting students in sear…

>he purest romantic intentions (the post talks of wife material, not one night stands)

Sure, using academic data to statically enter the easiest class with most chicks exudes pure romanticism. I'm sure the upperclassmen playing professor in a lab or doing the work of women they find attractive is totally helping the students learning. No unwanted advances are taking place is code for "no forced touch or stalking is happening".

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#345

Post by MuffinFlavored » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:30 AM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #308

User23 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women signal interest or a lack thereof in a thousand ways. Picking up on that is a basic social skill and like all skills some persons are more capable than others.

This just isn’t true at all. Women have different personalities and indicate their attraction or lack of attraction in very different ways. Flirting for some women is the exact same behavior presented to everyone for other women. If you want to know if a woman is attracted to you, ask her out and see what she says

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34590521

how does one ask a woman out if the default is supposed to be "don't hit on me right now ever"?

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#346

Post by rayiner » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:30 AM UTC

> a number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place

It’s heartening to see that since #metoo, boundaries are being re-established as to where it’s appropriate for men to express interest and when it isn’t. Society used to have clear rules for courtship, and where and when it was okay for men to make romantic overtures and where and when it wasn’t. Men threw out those rules in the 1970s-1990s, but it seems that women have been pretty emphatic recently that new guidelines are in order. They want spaces where they’re not being propositioned by men: class, the office, the gym, etc; where they can focus on other aspects of their lives in peace.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#347

Post by eldritch_4ier » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:30 AM UTC

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #74

nhchris wrote: post #43

> This might be hard, as no unwanted advances are taking place. We simply have students excelling at the course, and drawing-in a crowd. I should've been more clear with my "leching" comment. Still, it seems harassing in nature. It seems increasingly that society demands a world where dating only happens during designated and approved dating times and venues, and outside those strictly delimited places, men are to be…

Nobody cares if college students try to date other students from their classes. It is weird when people take a class specifically because of that reason though. It is even weirder when the class in question is something that they have a very high skill level in specifically so that they will be able leverage that into some kind of situation that leads to dating. This is pretty cut and dry to me, I am not sure why so…

Is it really weird? I get the gut reaction, and it certainly feels something like "pathetic", but when I think about it more: at the end of the day it's people trying hard to meet other people and find a connection.

Why is it not weird that tons of people use digital buffets to rate potential mates in their area before matching and meeting (often for one night stands)? Is that much different?

What about people looking for "the one" and going to unrelated social gatherings with strangers with that passive desire in the back of their head? That doesn't seem all that weird to me.

What makes this feel weird just seems to boil down to "they are trying too hard" or "they are trying in an unconventional way". The post said it: there are no unwanted advances, there is no harassment, there's just young men trying to find a wife, and pursuing that in a pretty direct and unconventional way.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#348

Post by spiritplumber » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:30 AM UTC

nhchris wrote: post #292

jhanschoo wrote: post #198

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

Less attractive girls get less male attention no matter what. Why would it be any more demoralizing if that attention comes with tutoring? Why would it be distracting? It seems everyone is complaining except the girls getting tutored. And if they did complain, if some guy was pushy or wouldn't take no for an answer, then deal with him the same as any other such guy - that they're attending a class for the sake of dat…

Because it can be very dehumanizing. "Even in a STEM class, I can't escape being unattractive". At minimum, it'll make me less likely to want to excel.

(Been there)

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#349

Post by Immerse7795 » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:30 AM UTC

The cynic in me thinks that the one of the reason for the post is that the instructor has lost control of the class and that showboating is not the only reason. I'm guessing some of the seniors auditing are better at understanding and explaining the course material than the instructor.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#350

Post by drewcoo » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:30 AM UTC

elil17 wrote: post #149

xupybd wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that taking a class to get to know single women of your own age is disrespectful. Do we know they are objectifying? The post said this was about finding a future wife.

It’s disrespectful because it ignores the fact that the women are not there to date, but to learn. The men are getting in their way by showing off and offering disingenuous tutoring.

Nonsense.

When I was in college, many women were there for their "Mrs. degree." Not most women but enough that it had a familiar jokey label. This was even joked about by those same women who were partner-hunting.

And investing time into an activity to meet someone is the opposite of disrespectful. It shows a willingness to at least commit something. I don't see how this is any worse than taking dance classes to meet people. As long as they're not interrupting dance class.