Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service • Hacker News Board

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#251

Post by ShredKazoo » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:06 AM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #206

ShredKazoo wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She clarified "there are no unwanted advances". Just because someone is uncomfortable does not mean there's something untoward going on. E.g. if I'm uncomfortable with two men kissing each other in public, it doesn't follow that those two men are creepy. If you grow up with conservative parents, you may be socialized to believe that men kissing each other is creepy, when it is actually normal and healthy. Similarly,…

Not the same thing because of the power imbalance (older students, that teach labs) and obvious intent there is the threat of unwanted advances. I’d bet on even odds of actual abuse having occurred and it ends up being reported as less because who wants to go to court and face the next Epstein?

>Not the same thing because of the power imbalance (older students, that teach labs)

The average marriage involves a husband who is taller, older, and wealthier than his wife. Is that power imbalance problematic? Shall we pass a law that men cannot marry women who are shorter, younger, or poorer than they are?

>obvious intent there is the threat of unwanted advances

Not obvious to me. What incentive is there for coercion, even? Suppose I "threaten" with an unwanted advance in this circumstance -- what would I be getting in return?

The point of the prank is to meet your future wife. The best way to meet your future spouse is to find someone who's just as interested in you as you are in them.

>I’d bet on even odds of actual abuse having occurred and it ends up being reported as less because who wants to go to court and face the next Epstein?

"If we allow men and women in the same building, odds are good that abuse will occur at some point. All facilities need to be gender-segregated to prevent abuse."

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#252

Post by MuffinFlavored » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:07 AM UTC

fastball wrote: post #172

User23 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women signal interest or a lack thereof in a thousand ways. Picking up on that is a basic social skill and like all skills some persons are more capable than others.

Keeping track of a thousand subtle signals is a "basic" social skill?

that's a huge problem with this too. you can say there are two camps, flirting (warranted or unwarranted can be ignored) and "hitting on". i'm sure some can argue it's a subtle vs not so subtle difference

you're asking socially awkward + nervous + scared guys to 1. go out of their comfort zone and smoothly create inorganically an opportunity to strike up a conversation with someone, and 2. sprinkle in something that is considered flirtatious but not too strong that it falls under the category of "hitting on"

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#253

Post by boppo1 » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:07 AM UTC

nhchris wrote: post #136

I-love-india wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you just to treat women with respect. The issue here is intention. The intention here is not about teaching or learning in the class. But its using that pretence in fact distrupting the intention of the class and people there. How do you like your intention distrupted? How about by unattractive slobs who are objectifying you and trying to be "helpful" and trying tricks they found on internet If someone is trying…

You've assumed a great deal more about their behavior than was written. The professor even states "no unwanted advances are taking place", contradicting your characterization. Indeed, your extra assumptions would qualify as 'disruption', and I imagine the professor would be well within her rights to expel such students. But merely offering, not pushing, assistance, or even less "showboating", letting students in sear…

Rule 1. Be attractive.

Rule 2. Don't be unattractive.

It's not a joke.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#254

Post by bitmunk » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:07 AM UTC

fastball wrote: post #172

User23 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women signal interest or a lack thereof in a thousand ways. Picking up on that is a basic social skill and like all skills some persons are more capable than others.

Keeping track of a thousand subtle signals is a "basic" social skill?

They didn't say subtle, or that you had to track the entirety of the hypothetical 1000.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#255

Post by quickthrower2 » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:07 AM UTC

Unsettled how many HN readers think this is OK. Please think deeply about this situation, using your systems thinking, to see why this is a really bad trend.

It is kind of worse than a single guy joining a yoga class for the same reasons. This is a conspiracy to get lots of men to interfere with the education and success of women to get a date or sex.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#256

Post by ImaCake » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:07 AM UTC

nhchris wrote: post #136

I-love-india wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you just to treat women with respect. The issue here is intention. The intention here is not about teaching or learning in the class. But its using that pretence in fact distrupting the intention of the class and people there. How do you like your intention distrupted? How about by unattractive slobs who are objectifying you and trying to be "helpful" and trying tricks they found on internet If someone is trying…

You've assumed a great deal more about their behavior than was written. The professor even states "no unwanted advances are taking place", contradicting your characterization. Indeed, your extra assumptions would qualify as 'disruption', and I imagine the professor would be well within her rights to expel such students. But merely offering, not pushing, assistance, or even less "showboating", letting students in sear…

>Some of the young students in my class take up these offers, and this further demoralizes other female students seeing this happen (i.e. only attractive women being offered tutoring sessions). This is further compounded by the condescension involved (i.e. one self-admitted user of the app told me "this material that others struggle with is so easy for me, and I'm doing it for laughs and phone numbers.").

This suggests otherwise. I personally would be very upset if someone helped me purely because they thought I was attractive.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#257

Post by texaslonghorn5 » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:07 AM UTC

ShredKazoo wrote: post #219

texaslonghorn5 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you know the material and are offering the tutoring sessions then you clearly have power over the person whom you are tutoring. similar reason why dating your student as a TA is questionable.

If you know the material, that gives you the power to offer tutoring sessions, which is power over people who don't know the material. >dating your student as a TA is questionable TAs are paid employees who often grade student papers. Seems like a very different situation.

if you take a class purely to offer tutoring to less advanced students for the purpose of looking impressive, finding dates, etc., then you are taking advantage of this power dynamic

sure this is different but if the advanced students are engineering situations where they are leading lab sessions then it's not that different

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#258

Post by MuffinFlavored » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:08 AM UTC

User23 wrote: post #234

fastball wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keeping track of a thousand subtle signals is a "basic" social skill?

Yes, “basic” means fundamental, not simple. And for a sexually reproducing species reading the social cues of the opposite sex is indeed of fundamental importance, modulo outright barbarism.

so you're saying it's basically evolution that if you don't know how to fundamentally pick up on flirting cues, you'll end up https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=incel

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#259

Post by shadowfacts » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:08 AM UTC

troupe wrote: post #95

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody cares if college students try to date other students from their classes. It is weird when people take a class specifically because of that reason though. It is even weirder when the class in question is something that they have a very high skill level in specifically so that they will be able leverage that into some kind of situation that leads to dating. This is pretty cut and dry to me, I am not sure why so…

> It is weird when people take a class specifically because of that reason though. Really? I know people who specifically chose their entire major based on the ratio of women in that major.

... Yes, choosing ones major based on dating prospects is definitely weird.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#260

Post by 8note » Tue, Jan 31, 2023, 4:08 AM UTC

britch wrote: post #128

beebmam wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people see this as even remotely unethical? It seems to me that it's great that plenty of younger people are getting essentially free tutoring sessions and fun friendships/relationships out of it. Unless there's sexual assault/battery being alleged here, this is both ethical and good for all the students involved!

There is an assumption in a class that you are there to learn the curriculum in some way. The seniors in this case are interested only in the other students. The class/coursework is only a prop for them to force interactions with other students. I don't think it's violence, but it's certainly unethical, and makes the class a "joke" for senior students to interfere with others learning. Imagine taking your first CS co…

> Imagine taking your first CS course and you get paired with someone who does the entire project before you can grapple with the question, An important part of the class has been taken from you.

I opened an IDE and it did my first assignment for me as part of the opening screen. In no way did it prevent me from learning hello world

I did miss out on properly learning what a Jacobian is and how to work with it intuitively because a buddy and I did two different class projects together and did a project from each solo, but I don't think the project would have done the job on the learning.

The most important learning from university is that you're in charge of your own learning. Just because said partner can do the whole thing doesn't mean you're off the hook