The moral of the story is, don't buy a windows phone if you want to reflash it.
Or an arm-based ultrabook.
Microsoft confirms UEFI fears, locks down ARM devices
11–20 of 133 posts
Re: Microsoft confirms UEFI fears, locks down ARM devices
#12And here I was starting to believe that other article about a calmer gentler Ballmer.
Re: Microsoft confirms UEFI fears, locks down ARM devices
#13I've been a Microsoft fanboy for a long time, and I've been speaking out about the Secure Boot brouhaha because there was effectively no evidence that they were actually attempting to lock anyone out, but this is simply inexcusable. Sad.
You can't seriously be surprised by this. Microsoft can't be trusted until their desktop monopoly is destroyed. I guess the US vs Microsoft is 14 years old this year. Maybe we've all forgotten how Microsoft destroyed all other PC OS'es and how Windows wouldn't run without Internet Explorer; Microsoft claimed it was part of the OS and there was no way to remove it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft
"Microsoft's true anticompetitive clout was in the rebates it offered to OEMs preventing other operating systems from getting a foothold in the market"
It shouldn't be a PC vs Mac world today. It should be PC, Mac, BeOS, OS/2, Linux, etc.
Re: Microsoft confirms UEFI fears, locks down ARM devices
#14Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly in the tablet or phone markets. Heck, it's barely a market participant. If Apple doesn't have to let people install Windows on an iPad, then the same should apply to Microsoft. This time, there's no "but there's a monopoly and the rules are different for monopolies" excuse.
Apple manufacturers both the hardware and the software and then sell it, there is no 3rd party involved in this transaction. Microsoft builds the OS and licenses it to a manufacture, they build the device and sell it. At least 3 parties involved. Microsoft's requirements need to be met to be able to license Windows 8 for tablets. Microsoft is forcing manufacturers to lock down their devices or else they aren't allowe…
> Google doesn't make any requirements on the manufacturers to lock their devices down.
But they do. Google has many requirements and if you don't meet them, you won't be licensed the Google apps. That's the same thing Microsoft is doing here. You can choose to make a tablet that doesn't meet their requirements, you just can't sell it with Windows if you do so.
Microsoft isn't preventing anyone from making products or selling tablets running other operating systems... just that the ones they sell with Windows can't be re-flashed.
Re: Microsoft confirms UEFI fears, locks down ARM devices
#15iPad has or had a monopoly in the tablet market, but where are/were the cries for an open bootloader? Where were the complaints to governments? Motorola and HTC phones/tablets ship with locked bootloaders while leveraging the hard work of F/OSS developers for free. Not to mention the Nook tablet/Kindle Fire which ship with a locked bootloader who get a free pass. Note that this will be the same set of people who will…
iPad was developed by a single company. Apple built the hardware and software. Apple didn't force a manufacturer through licensing terms to lock down the bootloader to stop the manufacturers customers from loading an alternate OS.
The thing that people don't like is the fact that Microsoft is saying through their licensing agreements with a manufacturer that they have to lock the boot loader down so that the manufacturers customers (Asus, HTC, Samsung customers) are not allowed to load an alternate OS.
Re: Microsoft confirms UEFI fears, locks down ARM devices
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple manufacturers both the hardware and the software and then sell it, there is no 3rd party involved in this transaction. Microsoft builds the OS and licenses it to a manufacture, they build the device and sell it. At least 3 parties involved. Microsoft's requirements need to be met to be able to license Windows 8 for tablets. Microsoft is forcing manufacturers to lock down their devices or else they aren't allowe…
> Google doesn't make any requirements on the manufacturers to lock their devices down. But they do. Google has many requirements and if you don't meet them, you won't be licensed the Google apps. That's the same thing Microsoft is doing here. You can choose to make a tablet that doesn't meet their requirements, you just can't sell it with Windows if you do so. Microsoft isn't preventing anyone from making products o…
There is no requirement from Google to build a device that the customer can't change at will after they purchase it. The manufacturers themselves have locked the boot-loaders not at the will of Google.
Re: Microsoft confirms UEFI fears, locks down ARM devices
#17And that's how Microsoft killed ARM based netbooks, ultrabooks, tablets, etc that could potentially run Linux because most OEMs will want to have them licensed for use with Windows 8.
Can we rehash all the dozen posts about this from months ago when people swore up on down that Microsoft wasn't going to do... well, what the rest of us expect at this point?
Re: Microsoft confirms UEFI fears, locks down ARM devices
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Google doesn't make any requirements on the manufacturers to lock their devices down. But they do. Google has many requirements and if you don't meet them, you won't be licensed the Google apps. That's the same thing Microsoft is doing here. You can choose to make a tablet that doesn't meet their requirements, you just can't sell it with Windows if you do so. Microsoft isn't preventing anyone from making products o…
There is no requirement from Google to build a device that the customer can't change at will after they purchase it. The manufacturers themselves have locked the boot-loaders not at the will of Google.
Exactly.
Add to that the fact that Google releases the Android source code. Manufacturers do produce Android derivatives (e.g. Kindle Fire) by removing the Google branding. And HTC just relented by unlocking their bootloaders, providing at least one data point that customers do want the ability to load their own OS.
Must we relearn the lessons from the PC all over again?
Re: Microsoft confirms UEFI fears, locks down ARM devices
#19iPad has or had a monopoly in the tablet market, but where are/were the cries for an open bootloader? Where were the complaints to governments? Motorola and HTC phones/tablets ship with locked bootloaders while leveraging the hard work of F/OSS developers for free. Not to mention the Nook tablet/Kindle Fire which ship with a locked bootloader who get a free pass. Note that this will be the same set of people who will…
Apple produces their own hardware, and the various locked Android devices are not being locked down by Google.
Re: Microsoft confirms UEFI fears, locks down ARM devices
#20The moral of the story is, don't buy a windows phone if you want to reflash it.
Or an arm-based ultrabook.
Or an x86-based laptop with UEFI Secure Boot*
* Windows 8 logo compliance still requires UEFI Secure Boot. This won't affect desktops as quickly but laptops come with minimal BIOS options. Managing keys to install another OS will be omitted by many laptop manufacturers.