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Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

latimes.com

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Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#441

Post by jakelazaroff »

monero-xmr wrote: post #425
jakelazaroff wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have the right to build a business. You have the right to try , of course, but it's not like there's some natural law that you should be able to succeed. So appeals to "it's hanging on by a thread!" don't really do much for me; maybe the viability of your business relies on an imbalance of power vs. your employees, in which case I'd really rather the thread be cut. Your comment about firing people is kinda…

To be clear - IMO any business that is not profitable is hanging by a thread. I invest capital and time in building new entities that I am confident can and will become profitable. I am potentially losing all of my money and time if that doesn't happen, and the vast majority of businesses fail. Creating a successful, sustainable, profitable business is a very difficult (yet rewarding) endeavor that I have had success…

Like I said to the other commenter: I understand the point you’re trying to make, I just disagree with it. If you tell me the only way some business can become profitable is if the employees don’t unionize, what you’re actually saying is that the business isn’t viable if employees can negotiate on equal footing.

And I mean, I understand why your perspective as an entrepreneur is that you should be allowed to negotiate at an advantage — it benefits you! My perspective is that if that’s the line between being profitable and not, it’s just not a viable business. Like you said, most businesses fail, and this one couldn’t make enough money to cover its costs.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#442

Post by baud147258 »

pessimizer wrote: post #91
baud147258 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> restricting new slack channels how is restricting the creation of chatrooms in a communication tool that's likely provided by the company in any way comparable to any of your other examples? If Slack is provided by your company, they would likely have mean to get everything you might have written there, that's already an incentive to move any discussion the company might frown on (like talk of unionizing efforts) o…

Separating workers from each other is a primary focus of fighting unionization, even to the point of starting and dismissing shifts in staggered groups. Work is where workers see each other. A lot of organizing is done at bus stops near places of work, or just outside of parking lots talking through car windows. Workers at work should have the ability to discuss their jobs with each other. edit: I don't know if I mad…

it just feels like a petty move compared to actual union busting effort. And instead of a link to a website, put a QR code with an invite to a discord server on that business card, where the channel #resources links to the appropriate manifesto and leaflets...

> Workers at work should have the ability to discuss their jobs with each other.

yes. But that's not necessarily the obligation of the company to provide them a tool to do so, hence my comment about using another platform

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#443

Post by jacknews »

vorpalhex wrote: post #48
jacknews wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they all find themselves in the same predicament all at the same time, across diverse markets and services? As far as I can tell there's is no actual downturn in the market, this is all anticipation. And so it's a 'movement' even if it's not a diffuse, or actual conspiracy.

> As far as I can tell there's is no actual downturn in the market You are dramatically incorrect. Unit sales, free spending, rates and inflation. + https://finance.yahoo.com/news/stocks-poised-hit-lows-survey... + https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/apple-sales-expected-to-f... + https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/25/inflation-is-cooling-but-hig...

expected ... poised ... weak outlook ...

This is again the finance/investment tail waging the economic dog.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#444

Post by compiler-guy »

braingenious wrote: post #433
compiler-guy wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some may be opposed for that reason, but I suspect there are many more reasons than that one. Other possibilities include the belief that a union would be ineffective. Or corrupt. Or at least unproven. Or would kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Or would immediately be captured by special interests not directly related to employment at big tech. Which isn’t to say that these concerns are valid, or couldn’t be a…

None of those reasons are incompatible with what I said! In fact, >Or would kill the goose that laid the golden egg. is a re-statement of my observation! :)

Not really. You describe it as it as the veneration of some mythical 10x developer or founder who single handedly props up the sky.

One can believe none of that, but still believe that a union would sufficiently change the firm’s economics that it would no longer offer the kind of jobs it does today.

One could believe that the collective work of all the employees produces all that value—no need for embarrassed billionaires—and still think that a union would work against that value.

And I’m not sure how believing that a union is unproven fits into your theory that HN readers believe the value is produced by the Übermensch.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#445

Post by Ferret7446 »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #175

Right before COVID-19 stay at home order in Chicago, a bunch of improvisers who preformed at the popular i.o theater put together a list of demands which basically asked for a bunch of changes to make the lives of performers better. They were not going to perform until those changes were made. The owner didnt respond for a few days and then said, "Hey! Heard you. Great valid concerns. But I'm actually shutting the th…

Yeah, you can't just make demands of other people, especially if you're relying on the other person to help you (e.g., hire you).

Biting the hand etc. You have to be the one who's bringing the goods to the table, or be prepared to have your bluff (or lack of sense) called.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#446

Post by randomdata »

BaseballPhysics wrote: post #427
randomdata wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of Silicon Valley and HN royalty is staunchly libertarian. Unions are a libertarian concept. Freedom of association is the fundamental underpinning of libertarianism. Those at the other end of the spectrum stand for supply management instead.

> Unions are a libertarian concept. As is union busting. As the US learned a long time ago, and then eventually forgot, the freedom to organize without employer retribution can only exist with government coercion. And absent that freedom, any attempt to unionize will be (and in the last 30-40 years, has been) crushed by the capital-owning class.

Absolutely. Freedom of association depends entirely on government upholding the will of contract.

What you describe is most definitely not libertarianism. Probably conservatism.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#447

Post by GrooveSAN »

sokoloff wrote: post #328
jimbob45 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is weird because they now have more control than ever in reality. Previously, if you headed up a tech firm in Wyoming, for example, your talent pool was the set of all the residents in Wyoming. You'd struggle to retain your top-end talent and you probably had to overpay to get them to stick around. Even worse, you probably had to donate to the University of Wyoming (read: bribe) to get them to train their stude…

That firm in Wyoming already had the ability to hire remotely 5 and 10 years ago. All they had to do was decide to do it.

They previously had to make their whole « internal processes » (for lack of a better term) remote-friendly, which wasn’t probably the case back then. When you build a physical-first team, your documentation, your newcomer-induction trainings, your typical way of sharing and bonding, those will all be relying on physical presence. That makes onboarding of full-remote colleagues terribly challenging, « doomed to fail » I’d even say. Being remote-friendly is an important effort that requires you to actually become remote-first. And this effort is only considered, started and approved by executives now that the global context has totally changed because of COVID. At least in the tech industry, there’s no coming back, and people at the top of the company, even if fighting on some details, are totally getting that.

So yes, my analysis is that, because of those fundamental « remote-friendly » changes, companies embracing the new normal can compete in a larger pool, which offers opportunities as well as challenges. Companies - in the IT domain - fighting this trend will only make their life terrible and eventually abide by the new rules (hey Apple! :))

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#448

Post by GrooveSAN »

jimbob45 wrote: post #317
jeffwask wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I think Executives are terrified of remote work. If the local theater doesn't want to meet my demand I have a global theater and someone will be always willing to leverage their competitive advantage to secure talent that would typically not be in their talent pool. People are no longer trapped by their geography or situation and Executives are terrified of losing that control.

Which is weird because they now have more control than ever in reality. Previously, if you headed up a tech firm in Wyoming, for example, your talent pool was the set of all the residents in Wyoming. You'd struggle to retain your top-end talent and you probably had to overpay to get them to stick around. Even worse, you probably had to donate to the University of Wyoming (read: bribe) to get them to train their stude…

Your point (first sentence) is totally valid - thanks for sharing it! -, but you then make it polarizing by getting emotional (« bribe », « desperate »), hence the down-voting, I guess.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#449

Post by wdr1 »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #175

Right before COVID-19 stay at home order in Chicago, a bunch of improvisers who preformed at the popular i.o theater put together a list of demands which basically asked for a bunch of changes to make the lives of performers better. They were not going to perform until those changes were made. The owner didnt respond for a few days and then said, "Hey! Heard you. Great valid concerns. But I'm actually shutting the th…

Out of curiosity, what's to stop the performers from leaving & starting their own theater with those policies?

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#450

Post by sausagefeet »

wdr1 wrote: post #449
AlwaysRock wrote: post #175

Right before COVID-19 stay at home order in Chicago, a bunch of improvisers who preformed at the popular i.o theater put together a list of demands which basically asked for a bunch of changes to make the lives of performers better. They were not going to perform until those changes were made. The owner didnt respond for a few days and then said, "Hey! Heard you. Great valid concerns. But I'm actually shutting the th…

Out of curiosity, what's to stop the performers from leaving & starting their own theater with those policies?

Probably: a lot of capital.
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