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Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

latimes.com

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Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#251

Post by nkjnlknlk »

monero-xmr wrote: post #230
deanCommie wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean isn't that default position? Everyone has to go into situations like this with eyes open. If there was no risk to striking or demanding better working conditions, it wouldn't be as rare as it is. I think everyone is aware that by default "the companies" have more power than the individual or the worker class. What's unusual is that in 2021 the balance shifted for a little while for the privileged tech worker c…

It is insanely hard to build a business, and I speak as someone who has built businesses in both tech and franchising (which should theoretically be much more straightforwards). At the primordial stage, before there are reliable revenues, you must have everyone marching to the same drum. If you can’t do what I say, please GTFO because you are actively harming what is already hanging on by a thread. If I can’t fire ba…

Wow. It sounds like you'd benefit from society where the risk of innovating (assuming your business is innovating in some capacity) is not life or death! I daresay a more equitable society would make it so you have an easier time with running your business as well.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#252

Post by jakelazaroff »

monero-xmr wrote: post #230
deanCommie wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean isn't that default position? Everyone has to go into situations like this with eyes open. If there was no risk to striking or demanding better working conditions, it wouldn't be as rare as it is. I think everyone is aware that by default "the companies" have more power than the individual or the worker class. What's unusual is that in 2021 the balance shifted for a little while for the privileged tech worker c…

It is insanely hard to build a business, and I speak as someone who has built businesses in both tech and franchising (which should theoretically be much more straightforwards). At the primordial stage, before there are reliable revenues, you must have everyone marching to the same drum. If you can’t do what I say, please GTFO because you are actively harming what is already hanging on by a thread. If I can’t fire ba…

You don't have the right to build a business. You have the right to try, of course, but it's not like there's some natural law that you should be able to succeed. So appeals to "it's hanging on by a thread!" don't really do much for me; maybe the viability of your business relies on an imbalance of power vs. your employees, in which case I'd really rather the thread be cut.

Your comment about firing people is kinda flippant. That’s your prerogative as a business owner, but don’t be surprised when your employees treat you just as transactionally as you treat them.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#253

Post by alberth »

It's way more simple, this is purely about Operating Leverage.

Essentially, over the last 2-years, many companies Expense growth outpaced their Revenue growth.

This is direct result of how Wallstreet holds companies accountable for EPS.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/operatingleverage.asp

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#254

Post by renewiltord »

kilgnad wrote: post #84
Phlarp wrote: post #20

Guess tech workers should have unionized when they had the chance. As if capital was going to let the most powerful group of workers that's ever existed continue to slip their noose

On a side note I feel we can take Unionization into the tech world as a start up or an App. Imagine a blind-esque App that just allows everyone participating to vote anonymously for a union. Then AFTER a union is official then leaders and instigators could reveal themselves or maybe there were no leaders or instigators the whole thing was p2p. I feel something as easy and convenient as blind can allow "unions in limb…

That's a pretty clever idea. I'm against tech unions entirely, but I have to say that the just-in-time union is a pretty neat idea.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#255

Post by braingenious »

randomdata wrote: post #237
braingenious wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you say that right-to-work is also a libertarian concept? In the context of the United States, right-to-work employers are under less government scrutiny as they don’t have to interact with e.g. the NLRB. If so, unions and the very opposite of unions are “libertarian concepts” and we’ve reached a point where we’re just talking about how words are meaningless and are entirely off-topic.

> Would you say that right-to-work is also a libertarian concept? This isn't a common term where I'm from, so I am admittedly not intimately familiar with it, but as I understand its meaning, as defined by Wikipedia, it removes some degree of freedom of association. So, no, it is in stark contrast to libertarianism.

A lot of libertarian managers in the US would disagree with that. From a manager’s perspective the ability to fire anyone at any time is them exercising freedom of association.

“Libertarian” has a specific connotation in the US, certainly when we’re discussing employment within the US.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#256

Post by jarjoura »

spamizbad wrote: post #194
area51org wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much want you to be correct, but having been around for a good amount of time, it's not always as straightforward as you suggest. In many instances, companies are reluctant to hire people who have been laid off, because they imagine that if company A laid the person off, obviously something's wrong with the person. In some cases, someone can take a couple of years or so to finally find a job, and that's enough…

Eh, this is just anecdotal, but as a manager whose hired people laid-off in the past, IME they're almost always better quality than the usual candidates that come across your desk. So when I see these layoffs I'm like a shark who smells blood. (ok, bad analogy, but I hope you understand I mean no harm). The most common reason for getting laid off is having the misfortune of working in a department or on a project tha…

Yup, spot on and pretty much explains everyone I know who’s been laid off.

We’re all lucky to land that great FAANG job, and just as unlucky to get laid off from it. This year should be a reminder to all of us to never take a day for granted.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#257

Post by [deleted] »

JackFr wrote: post #86

So big tech has 220,000 layoffs and there is not the merest hint of a blip in the unemployment rate. This is not a tragedy - these people are going to find jobs, good jobs. In fact it's quite likely that they will go into roles which might do something other than online advertising. You know, something useful.

[deleted]

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#258

Post by bbor »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #225
typon wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very surprising though. Most of Silicon Valley and HN royalty is staunchly libertarian. VCs doing zero labour and getting rich off the backs of workers is a phenomena that cant easily be defended unless you buy into this ideology.

This just shows that people have the capability to turn their brains completely off if you shovel enough (potential) money at them. For example, libertarians have been screaming from the rooftops about needing a flat tax for the longest time. Know what would accelerate socialist reforms in the US faster than any other? A flat tax. Public sentiment would turn on a dime as soon as people saw how much they were getting…

Ok I’m a little slow. Your point is that progressive tax structures are good, so we should get rid of ours in hopes that the working class gets so desperate and resource-starved that the revolt and implement an even more progressive one sometime in the future?

Very possibly I misunderstood, but otherwise that sounds suspiciously like what a cartoon villain capitalist would propose - sure seems like they’d be the winners in the short term.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#260

Post by nkjnlknlk »

godelski wrote: post #234
theptip wrote: post #104

I just don’t buy it. To be clear this is claiming that the CEOs are sitting behind a desk stroking a cat, thinking “now I will crush the labor movement and make all my workers feel less secure”. This is just not a problem that Pichai is facing. Occam’s Razor points to the very simple, non-conspiratorial answer that it really is just stock-price driven (ie market-driven) thinking (one could say “lack of actual strateg…

What frustrates me most is that a lot of people recognize that there are issues in the labor market but the conspiratorial belief makes things way harder to solve because we don't even know what the problem is. I see this happening in a lot of areas in both economics and politics. It does seem that people like this story of omniscient evil people better than incompetent selfish people. Like we've seen how inefficient…

It's because people are trained to think in terms of individual actors instead of systems. They're also trained to think their country's system is great if not for the X, Y, Z people ruining it. Of course, those who are educated and those with power often have to face the reality that we must focus on systems and processes.

It's not "conspiratorial" to assume corporations are invested in extracting the highest labour power at the lowest cost. It's what they are designed to do in the system we have.

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