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How likely is losing a Google account?

jefftk.com

101–110 of 305 posts

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#101
post #74

Using your own domain with a well-reputed registrar is the way to go IMO. It makes you independent of the email provider used. Registrars don’t run algorithms to lock out domain owners. You can also move between registrars when needed. Domains can be locked ("Client Transfer Prohibited") and set to auto-renew, which nowadays is the default. You can have an actual paper trail proving your domain ownership. Depending o…

For the 99+% of us who aren't computer savvy, "using your own domain with a well-reputed registrar..." is as achievable as suddenly speaking Sanskrit. Think outside the echo chamber.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#102
I, on the other hand, have the opposite problem. I want google to delete my old unused Workspace with gmail, as I moved to Protonmail. I tried to figure out how to get rid of it but have up. After a while I got emails from Google saying "x days remaining to set up billing for Google Workspace Business Starter", and "You have until this and this date to set up your billing information, after which your subscription will be suspended", and I thought, "Make my day!".

This counter has reset at least 5 times now...

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#103
post #69

It's true that every service has to deal with the same policy and lockout problems, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that the risk is the same. I pay for FastMail because 1. if something goes wrong, I can reach a human without needing to write a viral blog post first. Other services pay for a customer service department. 2. I trust FastMail more to not shut down their product because they got bored. Sure Gmail…

Any company with a business model that takes your money and gives you service is inherently more secure than one that sells your eyeballs to advertisers in exchange for giving you free stuff. The former companies have a direct incentive to keep giving you service as part of their core business. The latter are really only paying attention to the money they get from advertisers.

>Any company with a business model that takes your money and gives you service is inherently more secure than one that sells your eyeballs to advertisers in exchange for giving you free stuff.

If anything, companies try to double-dip and serve multiple masters. See: the security and privacy mess in smart TVs. Last I checked, LG wasn't giving their TVs away.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#104

It's true that every service has to deal with the same policy and lockout problems, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that the risk is the same. I pay for FastMail because 1. if something goes wrong, I can reach a human without needing to write a viral blog post first. Other services pay for a customer service department. 2. I trust FastMail more to not shut down their product because they got bored. Sure Gmail…

Left Gmail b/c for months it locked me out periodically for too many hits. Neither they nor I could ever identify the source of this.

Moved to Fastmail. No issues since.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#105
There's another way to "lose" accounts that's a bit more likely depending on your circumstances. I had set up a google account for my kid, so we could lock down the old tablet we let him poke at. I was happy that I had managed to get him his firstname.lastname gmail address in the process.

However recently the family moved to a new country. This basically isn't something google lets you do with a family group, and until you change your play store country, your play store won't have the local variants of a lot of apps, so you can't install them. You have to delete your family group, change country then recreate it. But you can't delete a family group with a child account. The only thing you can do is delete the child account. The help docs mention being able to restore it, but that didn't work, it just said it couldn't be restored. And since google doesn't allow an email address to ever be recycled once it's deleted, I forever locked my kid out of possibly having his firstname.lastname gmail address. Very frustrating.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#106

It's true that every service has to deal with the same policy and lockout problems, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that the risk is the same. I pay for FastMail because 1. if something goes wrong, I can reach a human without needing to write a viral blog post first. Other services pay for a customer service department. 2. I trust FastMail more to not shut down their product because they got bored. Sure Gmail…

I used to use gmail as primary and yahoo as spam.

Now I use proton as primary and gmail as spam.

gmail's quality right now is absolute garbage.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#107
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2) Why in the world would Gmail get shut down? The veins of treasure to be mined from within the user's emails are vast and endless. It is quite simply a mother lode. The only bigger source within their direct control is the search input screen.

> The veins of treasure to be mined from within the user's emails are vast and endless. https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6603?hl=en-GB > We will not scan or read your Gmail messages to show you ads. the veins dried up back in 2017.

only if you believe them.. I dont.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#108
post #69

It's true that every service has to deal with the same policy and lockout problems, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that the risk is the same. I pay for FastMail because 1. if something goes wrong, I can reach a human without needing to write a viral blog post first. Other services pay for a customer service department. 2. I trust FastMail more to not shut down their product because they got bored. Sure Gmail…

Any company with a business model that takes your money and gives you service is inherently more secure than one that sells your eyeballs to advertisers in exchange for giving you free stuff. The former companies have a direct incentive to keep giving you service as part of their core business. The latter are really only paying attention to the money they get from advertisers.

"is inherently more secure than one that sells your eyeballs to advertisers in exchange for giving you free stuff. "

Not necessarily, and in fact this case I would disagree.

I trust Google's security 10x more than that of FastMail.

The 'advertising company' reaps in billions of $ with which they can get all sorts of good engineers for 0-day research, exploits, updates.

They have a lot more of a reputation to defend.

Without hard evidence, I suggest that Google is probably 'more secure' than FastMail. Certainly more than 'Mom and Pop Mail'.

Except for the bit where they read my email and advertise to me on that basis, which is admittedly an ugly tradeoff.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#109

It's true that every service has to deal with the same policy and lockout problems, but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that the risk is the same. I pay for FastMail because 1. if something goes wrong, I can reach a human without needing to write a viral blog post first. Other services pay for a customer service department. 2. I trust FastMail more to not shut down their product because they got bored. Sure Gmail…

Humans executing security policy (inherently imperfectly) versus ML algorithms executing security policy (deliberately imperfectly) is not the main issue. The real problem is that the industry hasn't purposefully sat down and hammered out the full contours of user verification. Each company just starts off with simple passwords, bolts on a few other arbitrary mechanisms, and then forces that on their customers - residual probabilities and collateral damage be damned.

Strong passwords, hardware security keys, shared secrets meant for offline storage, SMS challenge, other accounts, snail mail address verification, notarization (governmental identity), voiceprints, time delays, etc. Each one represents its own tradeoff of convenience versus reliability versus forgeability versus privacy.

Users should be able to pick their own policies. For an email account where I've already provided my real world governmental identity, I'd most likely prefer snail mail address verification plus notarization (combined with notifications to the account and a waiting period). Whereas for another where I've deliberately avoided spilling my governmental identity, I should be able to express that a password plus hardware security key is the highest level of verification there will ever be.

Furthermore, companies need to make their own rules for falling between everyday access to account recovery explicit, and allow users to express preferences there too. There should be no cases of the wind blowing from the east so we require account recovery today, forcing users to be policed on what IP addresses they're coming from, etc.

Re: How likely is losing a Google account?

#110
This isn't limited to Google. I had a paid for Hotmail account back in the day, someone attacked a domain I held, and as part of that sent multiple abuse reports to every tech provider I used. My Hotmail was listed on the whois - Microsoft removed the email account, didn't refund and provided no human support that I could get a hold of to get the wrongful termination looked at.

It was a nightmare and a good reminder that an attacker with sufficient resources can create more issues than you can possibly dig yourself out of.

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