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Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

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Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#211

Post by haswell »

jack_riminton wrote: post #55
cfltlayoffs wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the recent layoffs I've seen some very senior high-performing engineers get the axe, because they were very expensive and the org could get two juniors grinding out CRUD for the same value as one super senior architecture astronaut.

Things brings about another question. Will the change in economic climate encourage these companies to ditch over-complicated Rube Goldberg machine stacks in favour of ones that allow Juniors to grind out CRUD. One can but hope

I can’t help but feel this misunderstands why systems become complex, and conflates simplicity with sanity.

Ditching an architecture also directly implies adopting a new one. If juniors are at the forefront of that, I don’t think the resulting architecture will somehow get magically simpler.

Architecture is a topic to be debated, no doubt. But if anything, I’d expect the departure of senior talent to solidify complexity, not enable some magical escape from it. The risk of changing a system goes up significantly the moment the people who understand the system walk out the door.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#212

Post by MisterBastahrd »

pwthornton wrote: post #127
JackFr wrote: post #86

So big tech has 220,000 layoffs and there is not the merest hint of a blip in the unemployment rate. This is not a tragedy - these people are going to find jobs, good jobs. In fact it's quite likely that they will go into roles which might do something other than online advertising. You know, something useful.

Big tech layoffs should work differently than most industries and may not impact unemployment as much. Big tech employees a lot of H1B visas holders. If they cannot quickly find a new job, they will have to leave the country.

They should also be the first to get laid off, all other things being equal. The H1 program is supposed to fill the gap. Extend their time to find another job if you must, but citizens should remain employed first.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#213

Post by j245 »

giantg2 wrote: post #178
j245 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hedge funds are parasites, they are an edge case in capitalism that needs to be patched. I can’t think of anything else that takes so much, while adding nothing to society.

They provide asset management and investment opportunity. Not all hedge funds are malicious. We can also see issues in tech that are similar. Look at all the hate Meta gets for their business model - using addicting algorithms to gather and sell users' info. There can certainly be an argument made here about the potential societal damage they cause being a parasite.

This is a common argument I hear, it just doesn’t hold water.

We should absolutely hold Big Tech accountable for their business models and actions.

On the whole though, they have released many orders of magnitude more useful things than Hedge Funds.

Is there a Citadel Maps I can use ? Or a TwoSigma framework like React ?

At least Big Tech has ad-powered useful services.

Hedge funds gobble up PhD holders and the cream of the crop and use them to make 0.1% of the population 5% wealthier ?

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#214

Post by tracker1 »

Phlarp wrote: post #118
kilgnad wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last decade or so, there were several times I brought this up on HN (anonymously), and each time my opinion was attacked as not making any sense. Times change.

I've been making pithy comments about tech bro unionization on the orange site for years now and I know exactly what you're talking about. Anything that even smelled like worker solidarity was shot down with vacuous logic about how the 10x engineers in big tech can't possibly be asked to associate with a lowly web master in a fly-over state. Then suddenly today I said something and instantly got 100 upvotes...

It's a mixed bag... when your near the ceiling for a given area, it's harder to think about scaling back. These past few months in tech have been really reminding me of the .com bust in 2000-2002, where a lot of the big tech companies scaled back, others fell over (mostly coastal areas) and about a year later it hit secondary cities (Phoenix, SLC, Houston, etc)... I was pretty much unable to find anything for about 6-8 months, and others for a year.

In the end, wound up staying in a room at a friend's house that was being renovated... working small project work at barely enough to feed myself on... By the end, my truck was reposessed and I was driving a junker. All I can say is for now, keep your head down, and hit your goals.

The up side is during the down time I managed to enhance my skills, learn a new programming language (offline, with the command line compiler is so much fun /sarc).

It's cyclical... I would expect many jobs at the higher end to shift down about 30-50% in terms of base compensation. Working C2H right now, and really hoping I'm able to come in perm. Fortunately in a market not going away.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#215

Post by unity1001 »

pmarreck wrote: post #170
unity1001 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Never attribute to malice, that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.” In the cutthroat randian landscape of the US business, it is the opposite: “Never attribute to incompetence, that which can adequately be explained by malice.” Incompetence, neglience, oversight etc are concepts frequently employed by the corporations to escape not only public opinion backlash, but also actually escape legal conseq…

That's fair. Claiming "we didn't know the consequences" (while those consequences weren't completely impossible to predict and coincidentally benefited the defendant) would be one possible strategy.

You have no idea - that sentence is one of the go-to legal defenses in corporate lawsuits as anyone remotely following any corporate wrongdoing cases would know.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#216

Post by ylou »

kilgnad wrote: post #47
Phlarp wrote: post #20

Guess tech workers should have unionized when they had the chance. As if capital was going to let the most powerful group of workers that's ever existed continue to slip their noose

In the last decade or so, there were several times I brought this up on HN (anonymously), and each time my opinion was attacked as not making any sense. Times change.

The handcuffs became a lot less golden.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#217

Post by MisterBastahrd »

kilgnad wrote: post #198
braingenious wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has always been a large (or very vocal) part of the HN userbase that’s very anti-union. I can’t say why with certainty, but I suspect it’s the veneration of the idea of the mythical “10x zero to one founder” that single-handedly props up the sky and produces billions of dollars of value for their (equally venerable) VC “partners”. It’s kind of a “temporarily embarrassed b illionaire” phenomenon that I love to w…

This is a YC owned site and it is against the interests of YC and all it's incubated startups. A lot of founders come here, so yes that group is likely mostly made up of founders.

If more than 0.01% of this site's userbase were founders, I'd be shocked. This is largely a place where tech workers pretend to be in the know.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#218

Post by tracker1 »

randomdata wrote: post #196
typon wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very surprising though. Most of Silicon Valley and HN royalty is staunchly libertarian. VCs doing zero labour and getting rich off the backs of workers is a phenomena that cant easily be defended unless you buy into this ideology.

> Most of Silicon Valley and HN royalty is staunchly libertarian. Unions are a libertarian concept. Freedom of association is the fundamental underpinning of libertarianism. Those at the other end of the spectrum stand for supply management instead.

I've been very libertarian (increasingly so over the decades) for a while and pretty pro union. My issues come from govt forced union jobs in some places, and likewise when govt interferes with planned strikes etc... as much as a railway strike would literally hurt for most of the country, as an example.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#219

Post by dubcanada »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #175

Right before COVID-19 stay at home order in Chicago, a bunch of improvisers who preformed at the popular i.o theater put together a list of demands which basically asked for a bunch of changes to make the lives of performers better. They were not going to perform until those changes were made. The owner didnt respond for a few days and then said, "Hey! Heard you. Great valid concerns. But I'm actually shutting the th…

This is sadly why you need political power. People with money can afford WAY longer then you to just say "nah..."

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#220

Post by deanCommie »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #175

Right before COVID-19 stay at home order in Chicago, a bunch of improvisers who preformed at the popular i.o theater put together a list of demands which basically asked for a bunch of changes to make the lives of performers better. They were not going to perform until those changes were made. The owner didnt respond for a few days and then said, "Hey! Heard you. Great valid concerns. But I'm actually shutting the th…

I mean isn't that default position? Everyone has to go into situations like this with eyes open.

If there was no risk to striking or demanding better working conditions, it wouldn't be as rare as it is.

I think everyone is aware that by default "the companies" have more power than the individual or the worker class.

What's unusual is that in 2021 the balance shifted for a little while for the privileged tech worker class. So it's notable that this brief blip was in fact a blip and not the start of a trend.

I don't know how hackernews feels about this given that many here often acts like they are enterpreneurs-in-training, CEOs-in-waiting. Those that secretly (or not so secretly) can't wait to repress others because ", capitalism" rather than working towards a more equitable future (the word itself considered dirty by many here).

Your key point is the last sentence. Individually we have no real power. That's because we are going against corporations and economic systems and governments, which are not individuals. The only way to have a meaningful chance at action is collectively.

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