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Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

latimes.com

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Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#191

Post by typon »

braingenious wrote: post #169
kilgnad wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last decade or so, there were several times I brought this up on HN (anonymously), and each time my opinion was attacked as not making any sense. Times change.

There has always been a large (or very vocal) part of the HN userbase that’s very anti-union. I can’t say why with certainty, but I suspect it’s the veneration of the idea of the mythical “10x zero to one founder” that single-handedly props up the sky and produces billions of dollars of value for their (equally venerable) VC “partners”. It’s kind of a “temporarily embarrassed b illionaire” phenomenon that I love to w…

It's not very surprising though. Most of Silicon Valley and HN royalty is staunchly libertarian. VCs doing zero labour and getting rich off the backs of workers is a phenomena that cant easily be defended unless you buy into this ideology.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#192

Post by yamtaddle »

theptip wrote: post #104

I just don’t buy it. To be clear this is claiming that the CEOs are sitting behind a desk stroking a cat, thinking “now I will crush the labor movement and make all my workers feel less secure”. This is just not a problem that Pichai is facing. Occam’s Razor points to the very simple, non-conspiratorial answer that it really is just stock-price driven (ie market-driven) thinking (one could say “lack of actual strateg…

> I just don’t buy it. To be clear this is claiming that the CEOs are sitting behind a desk stroking a cat, thinking “now I will crush the labor movement and make all my workers feel less secure”.

This would be a more credible claim if big tech companies, specifically, hadn't been caught doing basically exactly this, in the not-so-distant past.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#193

Post by kilgnad »

paulcole wrote: post #124
kilgnad wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last decade or so, there were several times I brought this up on HN (anonymously), and each time my opinion was attacked as not making any sense. Times change.

Many people on HN think of themselves as "top talent" (a barf phrase if there ever was one) and convinced themselves that they would be the ones held back by a union.

Actually HN is not bad. This is way worse on Blind.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#194

Post by spamizbad »

area51org wrote: post #122
JackFr wrote: post #86

So big tech has 220,000 layoffs and there is not the merest hint of a blip in the unemployment rate. This is not a tragedy - these people are going to find jobs, good jobs. In fact it's quite likely that they will go into roles which might do something other than online advertising. You know, something useful.

I very much want you to be correct, but having been around for a good amount of time, it's not always as straightforward as you suggest. In many instances, companies are reluctant to hire people who have been laid off, because they imagine that if company A laid the person off, obviously something's wrong with the person. In some cases, someone can take a couple of years or so to finally find a job, and that's enough…

Eh, this is just anecdotal, but as a manager whose hired people laid-off in the past, IME they're almost always better quality than the usual candidates that come across your desk. So when I see these layoffs I'm like a shark who smells blood. (ok, bad analogy, but I hope you understand I mean no harm).

The most common reason for getting laid off is having the misfortune of working in a department or on a project that no longer aligns with the company's "vision" and that's no fault of the engineer.

While some people might be biased to think the laid-off are poor performing employees, these people are simply buying into the "just-world fallacy" -- why would a bad thing happen to a good worker? But the truth is, while a company might ensure a few "rockstars" survive a layoff, there's plenty of "A" and "A-" talent that gets cut without a thought.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#195

Post by mywittyname »

ejb999 wrote: post #147
killjoywashere wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not have to divulge the basis of your departure from a company. "Creative differences".

hiring managers are not that dumb ... if you prior job is amazon, and you are applying for a new job 2 months after 18K have been laid off - they can put 2 and 2 together pretty easily. Even if you did leave on your own accord, they will likely assume you were let go. It's almost always easier to get a new job, when you still have one.

I've seen good people get laid off. So I certainly don't fault people for being laid off.

Plus, being an ex-FAANG is a huge bonus when applying for jobs at "normal" places or starts ups.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#196

Post by randomdata »

typon wrote: post #191
braingenious wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has always been a large (or very vocal) part of the HN userbase that’s very anti-union. I can’t say why with certainty, but I suspect it’s the veneration of the idea of the mythical “10x zero to one founder” that single-handedly props up the sky and produces billions of dollars of value for their (equally venerable) VC “partners”. It’s kind of a “temporarily embarrassed b illionaire” phenomenon that I love to w…

It's not very surprising though. Most of Silicon Valley and HN royalty is staunchly libertarian. VCs doing zero labour and getting rich off the backs of workers is a phenomena that cant easily be defended unless you buy into this ideology.

> Most of Silicon Valley and HN royalty is staunchly libertarian.

Unions are a libertarian concept. Freedom of association is the fundamental underpinning of libertarianism. Those at the other end of the spectrum stand for supply management instead.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#197

Post by Apocryphon »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #167
arcticbull wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Us workers already have Universal protections and job security while striking even if they're not in a union. No need for sick time, huh. Mat leave, pat leave. Generally US worker protections are some of the weakest in the developed world. So yeah I mean it's possible that these can be achieved without unionization, they definitely haven't been. A lot of those protections you allude to were actually obtained becaus…

We are specifically talking about tech workers here. They generally do have extensive sick time and leave policies. >So yeah I mean it's possible that these can be achieved without unionization, they definitely haven't been. Maybe I'm missing something, but almost all big tech companies have these and never had a union. >The weekend, and not locking workers in leading to them burning to death in downtown New York are…

Recently it’s been more about U.S. programmers locked out of their offices.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#198

Post by kilgnad »

braingenious wrote: post #169
kilgnad wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last decade or so, there were several times I brought this up on HN (anonymously), and each time my opinion was attacked as not making any sense. Times change.

There has always been a large (or very vocal) part of the HN userbase that’s very anti-union. I can’t say why with certainty, but I suspect it’s the veneration of the idea of the mythical “10x zero to one founder” that single-handedly props up the sky and produces billions of dollars of value for their (equally venerable) VC “partners”. It’s kind of a “temporarily embarrassed b illionaire” phenomenon that I love to w…

This is a YC owned site and it is against the interests of YC and all it's incubated startups. A lot of founders come here, so yes that group is likely mostly made up of founders.

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#199

Post by bbor »

throwaway23597 wrote: post #165
JackFr wrote: post #86

So big tech has 220,000 layoffs and there is not the merest hint of a blip in the unemployment rate. This is not a tragedy - these people are going to find jobs, good jobs. In fact it's quite likely that they will go into roles which might do something other than online advertising. You know, something useful.

How is online advertising not useful? It's directly greasing the gears of the economy, matching up potential customers with businesses in a reasonably intelligent way. Yeah, sure, it's not saving the world from climate change or something, but it's clearly facilitating economic activity, and also helps keep a number of very useful products free. Seems pretty useful to our society to me.

Don’t you think a catalog would do a better job of matching up consumers to products?

Given our environmental situation, is it really ethical to “convince” people that they need some new thing that they previously didn’t know about or want?

Re: keeping stuff free, that’s still pretty convincing and it’s mostly what keeps me going as I work on the great google ad machine. It seems like a massive social good for sites to be free to users of an economic class worldwide, both large tools and tiny blogs. Any alternative I can think of (e.g. government buys everyone google drive subscriptions, sites run off donations, micropayments) have some pretty obvious issues

Re: Big Tech is using layoffs to crush worker power

#200

Post by haswell »

Ancalagon wrote: post #14
haswell wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the higher profile high performers who are now unemployed would seem to be a direct counter example to this claim. What you’re describing doesn’t seem to match the recent layoffs we’ve witnessed.

Actually it matches what I'm seeing. Are you not seeing all of the recruiters/HR being let go in these layoffs? Seems like there are many more than SRE's (SRE's are what I'd consider to be business-critical). I don't have hard numbers though, even layoffs.fyi doesn't have a great breakdown of who was affected by these layoffs by department. If anyone has hard numbers I'd love to be proven wrong.

I’m not claiming there aren’t reductions happening in non-critical/discretionary roles, but that this does not seem to be the primary target of recent layoffs.

This is different than what we’ve seen in some years past where layoffs seemed more about trimming dead weight.

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