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Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

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Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#71

Post by lucasyvas »

hurril wrote: post #14

I prefer working alone but it can be even better to work alone, together. Alone together means that there's a deep understanding of the other party and an openness to finding just the right configuration and the best way forward, together. But too often, people that prefer teamwork, really just want to be heard and receive credit for work done, together. But they're generally not very productive and their opinions no…

> But too often, people that prefer teamwork, really just want to be heard and receive credit for work done, together. But they're generally not very productive and their opinions not that valuable.

Not every team I've been on is like this, but this resonates. Some teams are the equivalent of group projects in school and I think most of us unfortunate enough to have endured those would agree.

For me, the best team is a group of like-minded and like-disciplined individuals that align well and otherwise operate separately.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#72

Post by bityard »

bjornsing wrote: post #41

They seem to have missed my main issue with the “team player” culture: It dumbs everything down to the lowest common denominator. It’s good for the company since it avoids becoming dependent on any single individual. It’s good for the mediocre because they avoid competition / tasks they cannot do. But it’s bad for top performers (in terms of ability, not speed) because they will be stuck in the drudgery, doing work t…

This is only true of mismanaged teams. A good manager knows who to assign which tasks/projects depending on their workload and skills. Being a "team player" _should_ mean communicating your work to others, asking when you need help, and actively offering to help others when you can.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#73

Post by bumby »

cauch wrote: post #13

There is a small methodology mistake. They ask people to self-evaluate and then call the people who evaluate themselves better than others as "top performers" and the people who evaluate themselves as not better than others as "poor performers". But self-evaluation is really bad to show how someone will perform, especially if you focus on a group who has difficulties (or bad past experience) with team work and social…

This reminds me of some study that showed something like 90% of drivers rated themselves as "above average". It seems like self-evaluations are actually measuring confidence and not ability (which aren't always well correlated).

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#74

Post by qwerty456127 »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #25

Because they have ADHD and anxiety perhaps? Adapting to others pace, doing anything while being watched, being distracted by others regularly - these are some points of pain. Everything (except fighting or fleeing) is hard when you are in the fight-or-flight mode (and many people are in it chronically because their bosses&teams just won't leave them alone).

[dead]

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#75

Post by ihateyouall123 »

whatyesaid wrote: post #64
logicchains wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same in university (except maybe top ones). Most people want to do the bare minimum, such that in CS if you're competent it's often faster to do the whole project yourself than try to motivate/coerce/guide everyone in the group into producing a decent piece of work. Then this habit carries over into the working life; "if you want something done well, you've got to do it yourself".

Team work projects in an university should be marked through the components each individual does. In the real world, lack of effort = fired, in an undergraduate, one low grade which people are OK with.

This is absolutely not true whatsoever.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#76

Post by helf »

I hate working on teams because my time is constantly taken up with and interrupted by "meetings" and meetings to plan meetings, and bullshit meetings for more meetings about meetings.

And then I have to involve all these random people and have more meetings and then meetings about more meetings again. Then when I am halfway through finally implementing The Thing, there is a meeting about why it is taking so long and then a meeting about being able to manage the costs better and then a meeting about the minutes of that meeting and then a meeting to go over the prior 6 months of meetings to give a rundown to the Big Bosses who then schedule more meetings.

It's a fucking wonder anything ever gets done anywhere. The "We gotta be a team!!11" obsession seems more to help people justify their pointless job positions half the time than to actually benefit anyone or anything.

Or maybe I am just grumpy. But based off 30 years of personal experience and the experience of colleagues and friends and family.. I don't think so.

But lets have a meeting about this and go over some teambuilding exercises to help us leverage all our skills!

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#77

Post by jjtheblunt »

helf wrote: post #76

I hate working on teams because my time is constantly taken up with and interrupted by "meetings" and meetings to plan meetings, and bullshit meetings for more meetings about meetings. And then I have to involve all these random people and have more meetings and then meetings about more meetings again. Then when I am halfway through finally implementing The Thing, there is a meeting about why it is taking so long and…

> ... because my time is constantly taken up with and interrupted by "meetings"

...

> ... perhaps i'm just grumpy

You're only reacting to what you experienced as _reality_, which I believe because i've worked in kick ass engineering cultures with super lightweight management and zero meetings (Apple engineering, Motorola Labs) as well as laughably ridiculous bureaucracies with meeting galore squelching the smart engineers and their attempts at momentum (Amazon, for example, and Qualcomm less so).

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#78

Post by helf »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #77
helf wrote: post #76

I hate working on teams because my time is constantly taken up with and interrupted by "meetings" and meetings to plan meetings, and bullshit meetings for more meetings about meetings. And then I have to involve all these random people and have more meetings and then meetings about more meetings again. Then when I am halfway through finally implementing The Thing, there is a meeting about why it is taking so long and…

> ... because my time is constantly taken up with and interrupted by "meetings" ... > ... perhaps i'm just grumpy You're only reacting to what you experienced as _reality_, which I believe because i've worked in kick ass engineering cultures with super lightweight management and zero meetings (Apple engineering, Motorola Labs) as well as laughably ridiculous bureaucracies with meeting galore squelching the smart engi…

Probably so :) I've heard tale of those glorious places with no/almost no meetings.

looks wistfully into the horizon

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#79

Post by Jensson »

bumby wrote: post #73
cauch wrote: post #13

There is a small methodology mistake. They ask people to self-evaluate and then call the people who evaluate themselves better than others as "top performers" and the people who evaluate themselves as not better than others as "poor performers". But self-evaluation is really bad to show how someone will perform, especially if you focus on a group who has difficulties (or bad past experience) with team work and social…

This reminds me of some study that showed something like 90% of drivers rated themselves as "above average". It seems like self-evaluations are actually measuring confidence and not ability (which aren't always well correlated).

Confidence and ability has high but imperfect correlation. You see it clearly in the Dunning Kruger experiment, performance is way higher among the more confident groups. Just don't assume displayed confidence is a good measure of their actual confidence, many confident people act humble since it is socially advantageous to do so.

Edit: Also note that confidence and performance could be 100% correlated even if everyone rated themselves as higher than average. Correlation doesn't mean accuracy, it means that we can calculate their performance based on their confidence.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#80

Post by Jensson »

oytis wrote: post #62
ejb999 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that was my experience in school as well - and the real killer was even when team members contributed exactly zero effort for team projects, everyone on the team got the same grade. Professors didn't care - even if 3/4 team reported that 1/4 contributed zero. It doesn't take many experiences like that to decide it's easier to stay an 'individual contributor' when in the workplace, or at a bare-minimum, be very carefu…

> Professors didn't care - even if 3/4 team reported that 1/4 contributed zero. In workplace that can be mitigated by proper peer feedback system though.

What is to stop the 3/4 who didn't do anything will rate the person who did everything as a jerk, and he will be fired. It is 3 voices against 1, the manager will take their side in most cases.
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