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Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

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Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As does a neurotypical person with enough sense not to say such a thing, yet harbors the same opinion.

Sure, but I'd much rather work with that person. External interfaces matter much more than internal implementation details.

Having poor interpersonal skills isn't the only social dysfunction people can have. People can have normal interpersonal skills and all kinds of emotional baggage that drives toxic behaviors.

The worst developer I ever worked with, from a team productivity perspective, was a developer who had normal interpersonal skills, had an extremely high opinion of himself, had a disdain for development work relative to management, and had repeatedly failed at management. He was emotionally invested in the idea that he was a different and better kind of person than the other developers, but the people he identified with (managers) did not accept him as a peer, and he hated himself for it.

The development work he was supposed to do made him feel bad about himself, so he did the minimum (though the work he did was solid, though old-fashioned) and invested his energy into anything where he got to judge and direct other developers: diagnosing problems of the team, dictating processes and tools for developers to use, making project plans. He made his manager feel like he was their eyes and ears in the development team. He was utterly focused on his relationship with his manager, to the point where he didn't realize that he needed to be concerned with his relationships with anybody else. He was always outwardly friendly, and people started out liking him, but after a month or so, people learned to read condescension into everything he said. Since he had earned the complete trust of the manager, the situation couldn't be repaired, and the team basically disintegrated. Nobody could put their heart into their work under those circumstances, even if they tried.

He was always cordial and always had a graceful thing to say in any situation, the opposite of the toxic geek stereotype, but he had a worse impact on team dynamics than any of the egomaniac programmers I've worked with, including the ones who were overtly abusive towards other programmers.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#62
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same in university (except maybe top ones). Most people want to do the bare minimum, such that in CS if you're competent it's often faster to do the whole project yourself than try to motivate/coerce/guide everyone in the group into producing a decent piece of work. Then this habit carries over into the working life; "if you want something done well, you've got to do it yourself".

that was my experience in school as well - and the real killer was even when team members contributed exactly zero effort for team projects, everyone on the team got the same grade. Professors didn't care - even if 3/4 team reported that 1/4 contributed zero. It doesn't take many experiences like that to decide it's easier to stay an 'individual contributor' when in the workplace, or at a bare-minimum, be very carefu…

> Professors didn't care - even if 3/4 team reported that 1/4 contributed zero.

In workplace that can be mitigated by proper peer feedback system though.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, the autist jerk that claims to be top performer sometimes does a ton of work, but it's mostly useless. On the other hand, team players might produce less - in terms of pure volume, but with higher quality and with more focused direction. At the end impact of team players is higher. I've seen that where the jerk outputs a lot of shit and fumes inside, then after trying to correct that behavior they explode…

You seem to be ascribing a lot of power to one such jerk....your team should have been able to make due withoit too much influence....unless he was vital...

Every senior software engineer that works for more than few months and has some engagement in his work - aka, not works 4 jobs at the same time - has that amount of power.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#64
post #11

My kids work in team projects at school. The issue is that many other pupils just want to work the least possible and procrastinate as much as possible. This drives my kids crazy because they want to have good scores and they much prefer having a nice evening playing games or watching TV instead of rushing for late homework. (note to other parents: my kids do procrastinate, of course, but not as much as the average :…

It's the same in university (except maybe top ones). Most people want to do the bare minimum, such that in CS if you're competent it's often faster to do the whole project yourself than try to motivate/coerce/guide everyone in the group into producing a decent piece of work. Then this habit carries over into the working life; "if you want something done well, you've got to do it yourself".

Team work projects in an university should be marked through the components each individual does. In the real world, lack of effort = fired, in an undergraduate, one low grade which people are OK with.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#65
post #35

I find that some lone wolves are really just speed demons who are too impatient to wait for an entire team to get on the same page, so they blaze through a bunch of work quickly while answering to no one or consulting anyone’s opinion. In the end, they produce something fast that would have taken the team a lot longer to do as a unit.

To add some color to this. It can be stressful to someone like this to be blocked, and you can find yourself almost always blocked. You can reach a point where you have enough experience/mastery that it's hard for someone to keep you busy without giving you a whole system to create or maintain at your own pace.

It's not a good experience to get a stream of one off tickets when you breeze through what can be done autonomously and are rarely not in a state of needing someone else to clarify a requirement or decide what can be done next.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#66
post #11

My kids work in team projects at school. The issue is that many other pupils just want to work the least possible and procrastinate as much as possible. This drives my kids crazy because they want to have good scores and they much prefer having a nice evening playing games or watching TV instead of rushing for late homework. (note to other parents: my kids do procrastinate, of course, but not as much as the average :…

Seems like your school is good at preparing for adulthood :)

If this will continue then the school may make them realize that grades are irrelevant

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#67
My hot take: the team I'm on is prone to extreme bikeshedding so sometimes I just go "lone wolf" on my work items to get a minimum working version out. The team then gives a lot of feedback (which is great) but would be insurmountable if I asked those questions upfront.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#69

They seem to have missed my main issue with the “team player” culture: It dumbs everything down to the lowest common denominator. It’s good for the company since it avoids becoming dependent on any single individual. It’s good for the mediocre because they avoid competition / tasks they cannot do. But it’s bad for top performers (in terms of ability, not speed) because they will be stuck in the drudgery, doing work t…

That's a badly managed team. Teams are diverse wrt. ability and expertise, that's expected. In well-managed teams work will be allocated to let everyone exercise theirs.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#70
Why? Let's see, starting with grade school on through my latest brush with the Agile Cult ... it's just been bad experiences all around. Being unable to concentrate due to the incessant babbling of others, the flow-destroying "interrupt, everywhere, all the time," the sudden changes in direction (characterized as "whimsical" if I am being extremely kind), the overhead of personalities, and so on. It's bad enough that it has probably unfairly colored some common, adjacent items.
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