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Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

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Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#91

Post by michaelmior »

blackhaz wrote: post #56
Retric wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School should be preparing people for the “real world” after graduation. Learning to think on the computer is a useful skill and 6th graders US (11 year olds are year 7 in UK) have had half a decade of paper instruction. So making the jump at 11 is perfectly reasonable. Chromebook is simply cheap to buy and manage. The point of these is a simple tool, little different than a calculator. If Google offends you feel fre…

I think we all had no problem growing up being ready for IT, and my parents can do taxes online. Forcing kids to do everything online in school and at home is what's fundamentally new and wrong here. There is no option of paper. Of course, unless by "real world" we mean an army of zombies training somebody's else AI and consuming reprocessed digital matter... I wish Chromebook was only a calculator at school, but kid…

> Instead of really thinking and planning, you're clicking buttons, writing WYSIWYG and drag'n'dropping things around.

This suggest that really thinking and planning can't happen while doing these things. I understand the concern, but I'm not entirely convinced that's true.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#92

Post by ricardobayes »

blackhaz wrote: post #19
Overtonwindow wrote: post #4

I hope I don't sound like a Luddite, but I don't think kids should have chrome books, or any type of laptops in school...

Getting Chromebooks to schools is the single most horrific act we could have done to our education system. This act undermines the very future of our nations. A big proportion of all the classwork and homework is now done on the screen. There is plenty of evidence that handwriting boosts cognitive processes - thinking on paper is something that the next generation will mostly lack. Rich and powerful are all aware of…

It mostly prepares young people for another walled garden later on, the Mac ecosystem.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#93

Post by blitzar »

bitwize wrote: post #37
1317 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

paper, perhaps?

Reeking purple worksheets fresh off the mimeograph machine, just like God intended. And make the little brats write in cursive. We also have a golden opportunity to teach them where "cut" and "paste" on their parents' computers come from, using real scissors and actual nasty, lumpy paste.

> teach them where "cut" and "paste" on their parents' computers come from

Apple invented it for iOS 3.0 in 2009.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#94

Post by HDThoreaun »

AstixAndBelix wrote: post #22
Overtonwindow wrote: post #4

I hope I don't sound like a Luddite, but I don't think kids should have chrome books, or any type of laptops in school...

I concur. Nothing I learnt in high school required anything more than pen and paper.But my EE degree? I would lie if I said a laptop with Matlab did not help me immensely to learn concepts

And my math classes didn't require a calculator. Still would've been a disservice to ban them, because the point is to prepare you for real life where using a computer is the expectation.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#95

Post by Symbiote »

icepat wrote: post #73
Symbiote wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your case is very unusual, and should be dealt with separately. It's not at all reasonable to make generalizations to all children from a single neurodivergent child. (In England your teacher would ask the school's special education teacher for advice. You might end up with a laptop, or something else that helps, essentially on prescription from an educational psychologist. Class teachers would be given guidance on w…

Not saying it is not, but what I am saying is that you should be allowed whatever learning tools work best for you. A blanket ban on computers and insisting on hand written notes, is just no good. Forcing children to manage bureaucracy to get a simple laptop in class is also senseless. > In England your teacher would ask the school's special education teacher for advice In Canada, they just said I wasn't trying hard…

I draw your attention to where I wrote the laptop would be on prescription from an expert, with guidance to teachers. That puts it outside any blanket ban that might otherwise exist.

Some process is inevitable when your needs are far outside the norm and have the potential to disrupt the education of the rest of the class.

(I can't comment on the situation in Canada.)

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#96

Post by ricardobayes »

blackhaz wrote: post #56
Retric wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School should be preparing people for the “real world” after graduation. Learning to think on the computer is a useful skill and 6th graders US (11 year olds are year 7 in UK) have had half a decade of paper instruction. So making the jump at 11 is perfectly reasonable. Chromebook is simply cheap to buy and manage. The point of these is a simple tool, little different than a calculator. If Google offends you feel fre…

I think we all had no problem growing up being ready for IT, and my parents can do taxes online. Forcing kids to do everything online in school and at home is what's fundamentally new and wrong here. There is no option of paper. Of course, unless by "real world" we mean an army of zombies training somebody's else AI and consuming reprocessed digital matter... I wish Chromebook was only a calculator at school, but kid…

It might lead to a good thing, internet access as a right. I hope this becomes the norm at some point, much like the right to have a bank account in the EU.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#97

Post by danaris »

troupe wrote: post #87
danaris wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what, you think that children should have to figure out computers for themselves? That only the geeky ones (who are likely to poke at stuff and learn that way) should actually have a clue how to use computers? Or is it that you think parents should be teaching this—which guarantees it's only going to be taught to the children of the reasonably well-off? Welcome to the 21st century, where it's widely beneficial fo…

I don't know. The family I've seen that don't give their kids unrestricted access to the internet have no problem keeping them off of social media.

I want to be very clear here:

I'm not talking about kids. I'm saying those kids will grow up, and once they grow up, they will almost certainly be on social media.

If they are not taught about critical thinking, media literacy, and how to recognize manipulations and misinformation while they are still in school, they will be easy prey for all the various kinds of sharks out there.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#98

Post by fatnoah »

blackhaz wrote: post #19
Overtonwindow wrote: post #4

I hope I don't sound like a Luddite, but I don't think kids should have chrome books, or any type of laptops in school...

Getting Chromebooks to schools is the single most horrific act we could have done to our education system. This act undermines the very future of our nations. A big proportion of all the classwork and homework is now done on the screen. There is plenty of evidence that handwriting boosts cognitive processes - thinking on paper is something that the next generation will mostly lack. Rich and powerful are all aware of…

> A big proportion of all the classwork and homework is now done on the screen. There is plenty of evidence that handwriting boosts cognitive processes - thinking on paper is something that the next generation will mostly lack.

It's a dual-edged sword, IMHO. I fully agree that writing by hand feels very different both in terms of the ability to take notes while paying attention to someone else AND seems to promote better thought and recall.

Devices can have a benefit, though. My 15 year old w/ADHD has constantly struggled with note taking and test preparation. What he's recently found that works well is to create online quizzes based on study materials. It keeps him engaged since it's more active, plus the act of creating the quizzes themselves runs the information through his brain.

All that said, I agree on the dangers of the walled garden and that technical, privacy, or other issues will certainly lead to cases where the technology becomes a distraction, even when used as intended.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#99

Post by logifail »

icepat wrote: post #73
Symbiote wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your case is very unusual, and should be dealt with separately. It's not at all reasonable to make generalizations to all children from a single neurodivergent child. (In England your teacher would ask the school's special education teacher for advice. You might end up with a laptop, or something else that helps, essentially on prescription from an educational psychologist. Class teachers would be given guidance on w…

Not saying it is not, but what I am saying is that you should be allowed whatever learning tools work best for you. A blanket ban on computers and insisting on hand written notes, is just no good. Forcing children to manage bureaucracy to get a simple laptop in class is also senseless. > In England your teacher would ask the school's special education teacher for advice In Canada, they just said I wasn't trying hard…

> You would like to assume that teachers and school administrators are looking for the best way to educate people, but sadly that's not always the case

At the latest since become a parent and having school-age kids it's become patently clear to me that this isn't what school administrators or the indeed the vast majority of teachers are looking for at all.

Re: Sh1mmer – An exploit capable of unenrolling enterprise-managed Chromebooks

#100

Post by AstixAndBelix »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #94
AstixAndBelix wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I concur. Nothing I learnt in high school required anything more than pen and paper.But my EE degree? I would lie if I said a laptop with Matlab did not help me immensely to learn concepts

And my math classes didn't require a calculator. Still would've been a disservice to ban them, because the point is to prepare you for real life where using a computer is the expectation.

Learning to do high school maths by hand and then doing it on a computer is trivial. Learning everything through a computer and then trying to do it by hand is incredibly hard.

Having your basic education be dependent on the most complicated tech in existence seems a bit too much for me. I don't think 5nm chips made in Taiwan are the best way to teach a kid what division is and who Napoleon was.

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