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Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

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Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#21

Post by pydry »

MrSqueezles wrote: post #9
Shinmon wrote: post #2

Great post. Not sure, how much research is behind everything but the overall sentiment hits it pretty spot on.

Yeah, I don't know whether I believe they actually found 18,000 people and somehow sorted them accurately into high and low performers. I've worked with people who don't like teamwork because they're afraid of being discovered as not knowing what they're doing and others who can't compromise on literally anything, so claim they're the smartest and best and nobody can keep up. All have in common that in the long term,…

>I've worked with people who don't like teamwork because they're afraid of being discovered as not knowing what they're doing and others who can't compromise on literally anything, so claim they're the smartest and best and nobody can keep up. All have in common that in the long term, the things they build are unmaintainable Jenga towers nobody else understands.

Amen. Or both, even.

I worked with a lot of these at the beginning of my career. They would stick around for ages in companies that paid poorly, leading teams of fresh faced junior developers who would rotate out as soon as they had enough experience to get a pay rise and go work somewhere sane.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#22

Post by ejb999 »

logicchains wrote: post #16
wiz21c wrote: post #11

My kids work in team projects at school. The issue is that many other pupils just want to work the least possible and procrastinate as much as possible. This drives my kids crazy because they want to have good scores and they much prefer having a nice evening playing games or watching TV instead of rushing for late homework. (note to other parents: my kids do procrastinate, of course, but not as much as the average :…

It's the same in university (except maybe top ones). Most people want to do the bare minimum, such that in CS if you're competent it's often faster to do the whole project yourself than try to motivate/coerce/guide everyone in the group into producing a decent piece of work. Then this habit carries over into the working life; "if you want something done well, you've got to do it yourself".

that was my experience in school as well - and the real killer was even when team members contributed exactly zero effort for team projects, everyone on the team got the same grade. Professors didn't care - even if 3/4 team reported that 1/4 contributed zero.

It doesn't take many experiences like that to decide it's easier to stay an 'individual contributor' when in the workplace, or at a bare-minimum, be very careful about what teams you get assigned to.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#24

Post by madamelic »

sublinear wrote: post #7

I disagree with the notion of a "lone sheep". By the same logic I have known a few "lone wolves" who are outrageously arrogant and disorganized and so unwilling to accept when they're wrong that nobody wonders why they're never in charge. This article sounds like it's trying to make excuses for the shortcomings of the "lone" type by making a false distinction. I'm saying this as someone who used to be considered a "l…

Sheep dog > Lone wolf.

- Understands the value of the pack

- Able to go off on a solo project if needed and do _everything_ associated

- Isn't a jerk

- Cares if people are blocked regardless of project and willing to help out

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#25

Post by qwerty456127 »

Because they have ADHD and anxiety perhaps? Adapting to others pace, doing anything while being watched, being distracted by others regularly - these are some points of pain. Everything (except fighting or fleeing) is hard when you are in the fight-or-flight mode (and many people are in it chronically because their bosses&teams just won't leave them alone).

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#26

Post by mromanuk »

"Most inventors and engineers I’ve met are like me — they’re shy and they live in their heads. They’re almost like artists. In fact, the very best of them are artists. And artists work best alone — best outside of corporate environments, best where they can control an invention’s design without a lot of other people designing it for marketing or some other committee. I don’t believe anything really revolutionary has ever been invented by committee… I’m going to give you some advice that might be hard to take. That advice is: Work alone… Not on a committee. Not on a team." [0][1]

0: https://www.themarginalian.org/2012/01/18/woz-on-creativity-...

1: https://www.dailyfig.com/2016/11/11/steve-wozniaks-advice-fo...

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#28

Post by detourdog »

madamelic wrote: post #24
sublinear wrote: post #7

I disagree with the notion of a "lone sheep". By the same logic I have known a few "lone wolves" who are outrageously arrogant and disorganized and so unwilling to accept when they're wrong that nobody wonders why they're never in charge. This article sounds like it's trying to make excuses for the shortcomings of the "lone" type by making a false distinction. I'm saying this as someone who used to be considered a "l…

Sheep dog > Lone wolf. - Understands the value of the pack - Able to go off on a solo project if needed and do _everything_ associated - Isn't a jerk - Cares if people are blocked regardless of project and willing to help out

I think the issue is the group defines whether one is a sheep dog or a lone wolf. One may identify as a sheep dog and be seen as a lone wolf by a team. The actions and intentions of the outsider are defined by the group.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#29

Post by sublinear »

jebarker wrote: post #12
sublinear wrote: post #7

I disagree with the notion of a "lone sheep". By the same logic I have known a few "lone wolves" who are outrageously arrogant and disorganized and so unwilling to accept when they're wrong that nobody wonders why they're never in charge. This article sounds like it's trying to make excuses for the shortcomings of the "lone" type by making a false distinction. I'm saying this as someone who used to be considered a "l…

> grew out of it by speaking my mind more often Could you expand on how this helped you grow out of being a lone wolf? Was it because you just weren't participating in group discussion before?

It's not just that I spoke my mind more often, but that I felt comfortable doing it.

I used to seldom speak, but when I did I'd let out all the stuff I was holding back (sometimes going back weeks or months of previous discussions!).

I either tended to be right about some stuff but too late for it to make a difference anymore, or wrong about some stuff and ignored. This only made my arrogance even worse thinking everyone else was dumb.

I was holding back because I was afraid of being wrong and damaging my reputation as someone who "just got things done" and "didn't complain". You see in my mind I was being a "team player" this way. It's obvious now how some bosses took advantage of this while others hated it.

I then found a slower paced job where _nobody_ is ever the hero and the meetings finally weren't a waste of time. It's not a coincidence this job that turned me around paid way better, had more reasonable schedules, and employed "senior devs" who weren't just a bunch of kids in their 20s.

Re: Lone Wolves: Why do some people hate teamwork? (2017)

#30

Post by ianleeclark »

BurningFrog wrote: post #18
cauch wrote: post #13

There is a small methodology mistake. They ask people to self-evaluate and then call the people who evaluate themselves better than others as "top performers" and the people who evaluate themselves as not better than others as "poor performers". But self-evaluation is really bad to show how someone will perform, especially if you focus on a group who has difficulties (or bad past experience) with team work and social…

[flagged]

As does a neurotypical person with enough sense not to say such a thing, yet harbors the same opinion.
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