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Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

nytimes.com

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Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#241

Post by gennarro »

a_bonobo wrote: post #225
erentz wrote: post #111

This is really weird. FTA: "These gauges are designed to be robust and to be used in industrial settings where they may be exposed to weather and vibration,” Dr. Robertson said at a news conference on Saturday, “so it is unusual for a gauge to come apart like this one has." See also this [1] article with a picture of an example gauge. Again making the point that this is really weird: "Radiation Services WA general ma…

>so it is unusual for a gauge to come apart like this one has There's a famous Australian sketch about an oil spill from 1991 that uses very similar wording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E8LW7qaDG4

Incredible. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#242

Post by atlastreasure23 »

suprjami wrote: post #228
BetterGeiger wrote: post #167

Radiation detection is my specialty. This source is Cs-137, few hundred mCi. It's easy to detect within a few seconds at distances of a few tens of meters or more with professional detection equipment if there is direct line of sight. If it was knocked off the road, though, the question will be if it fell into a crack or other such place because then the radiation is somewhat shielded and it would take much more meas…

Please consider writing to the responsible government department and give them your credentials and suggestion. This thing has been missing for months. Their current detection strategy is to post a picture of a watch battery on Facebook and hope it just magically shows up. We're a little deficient in technology here in Australia, especially in government, doubly so in state government.

I’m usually one of the first to throw shade at the Australian government but to claim that “this thing has been missing for months” isn’t misleading - it’s a lie.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Australian_radioacti...

Also to say the tactics being used to find the capsule being limited to “post a picture of a watch batter on Facebook and hope it magically shows up” would be misleading.

1)The public alerts and posts are to keep the public informed as to what it is. This is for the very small chance someone does stumble onto it to limit the risk to the public.

2)They are searching the route with handheld detectors and soon detectors on vehicles using the trucks GPS data to map the route

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jan/29/new-t...

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#243

Post by morpheuskafka »

eternityforest wrote: post #210
Animats wrote: post #135

Here's what gauge sources like this look like.[1] Here are some packed for shipping. bolted to a crate, as described in the NY Times article.[2] The locks are $8 Master Lock combination padlocks, probably just to keep people from opening the things by accident. The lock looks optional on the model in [2]. The lock is on the shutter end, anyway. The cover plate that gives access to the source for replacement is secure…

Can't imagine those things are available anywhere for that cheap. Why not require 4g tracking on them all if they're already $1000 items?

The source fell out of the equipment, which somehow broke apart in transit. A detector on the equipment wouldn't help and you can't put a detector on the source itself, it's just a capsule that needs to go inside a certain place in the device.

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#244

Post by throwanem »

krisoft wrote: post #176
throwanem wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great catch, and you're right: lots of things can go wrong in a desert whether there's radiation involved or not, so we'd have needed those helicopters either way. This is why we work in teams - don't be shy about anything else you see me missing.

> don't be shy about anything else you see me missing I would think we need to clarify the theoretical and practical limits of the detectors. Depending on how the sensors work the search might look very different. If you can get some expensive lab gear and distinguish the radiation of this source from the background from hundreds of kilometers then you only need to measure at a few strategic locations to triangulate…

Certainly there would be significant engineering problems involved if we had to develop the survey technology and methodology from scratch, and more problems still if we first needed to confirm that such engineering is even achievable.

Fortunately for us in this case, aerial radiological surveying has long since been reduced to practice. [1] [2] The detection equipment described in those references is on the order of tens of thousand times more sensitive than consumer-grade G-M counters, and is commercially available. [3]

[1] https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/6084

[2] https://journals.lww.com/health-physics/Abstract/2016/05000/...

[3] https://www.berkeleynucleonics.com/nai-sodium-iodide

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#245

Post by Gigachad »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #235
Retric wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any reason to care about interior lead paint if it’s under several more recent lead free layers and not chipping off?

Nope, but some homeowners do not know the dangers of lead dust and can get home renovations done without taking the proper precautions.

Lead and asbestos are like the C programming language. In certain very controlled situations they can be perfectly fine. Only in the real world that rarely ever happens.

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#246

Post by grouchomarx »

mach1ne wrote: post #129
erentz wrote: post #111

This is really weird. FTA: "These gauges are designed to be robust and to be used in industrial settings where they may be exposed to weather and vibration,” Dr. Robertson said at a news conference on Saturday, “so it is unusual for a gauge to come apart like this one has." See also this [1] article with a picture of an example gauge. Again making the point that this is really weird: "Radiation Services WA general ma…

Is there any chance it was theft?

"They believe that vibrations from the truck caused the sensor to shake apart and also dislodged a mounting bolt, leaving a hole in the bottom of the box. The capsule is believed to have fallen out of the sensor, through the bolt-hole, onto the surface of the truck, and bounced off into the road."

This explanation sounds pretty bogus so theft makes sense to me

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#247

Post by sogen »

Always42 wrote: post #230
bamboozled wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a critter moved it or ate it then it's probably gone forever. At a distance of 1 meter the dose rate from that source is already not extremely hazardous unless a person were exposed for an extended period of time (like a full day or two). Getting closer, like putting it directly against your torso, would mean serious health effects in a matter of minutes. Bit of contradiction in your statement here? If putting it…

Playing devils advocate, what if a bird grabs it and fly's 1000 meters before death?

Reminded me of the ending scene of The Thing.

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#248

Post by bendews »

LatteLazy wrote: post #146
erentz wrote: post #111

This is really weird. FTA: "These gauges are designed to be robust and to be used in industrial settings where they may be exposed to weather and vibration,” Dr. Robertson said at a news conference on Saturday, “so it is unusual for a gauge to come apart like this one has." See also this [1] article with a picture of an example gauge. Again making the point that this is really weird: "Radiation Services WA general ma…

Thanks. I was confused why the NYT didn't include a picture of it for public safety if for no other reason...

NYT does not have any reach in Australia, and especially so with the population that lives around where the capsule was misplaced.

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#249

Post by wkat4242 »

Aeolun wrote: post #212
BetterGeiger wrote: post #167

Radiation detection is my specialty. This source is Cs-137, few hundred mCi. It's easy to detect within a few seconds at distances of a few tens of meters or more with professional detection equipment if there is direct line of sight. If it was knocked off the road, though, the question will be if it fell into a crack or other such place because then the radiation is somewhat shielded and it would take much more meas…

I was thinking, 10 x-rays per hour doesn’t sound so terrible. But if you bring it closer than 1 meter it would start getting exponentially worse.

> I was thinking, 10 x-rays per hour doesn’t sound so terrible.

I believe the popular term is "not great, not terrible" ;)

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#250

Post by lmpdev »

bogeholm wrote: post #103
anakaine wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No moose, bears, wolves, cougars, or other alpha predators in Australia though. About the worst are wild dogs / dingos, though they typically won't be a problem unless they're in a pack. I'll take Australian dangers over North American every day of the week.

They do have the saltwater crocodile[0], which looks close to alpha. Maybe unless it encounters an orca. I bet is has a great name in Australia - any Ozzies around who can comment? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltwater_crocodile

Salties are absolutely alpha predators in their distribution

Arguably the most dangerous animal on the planet for a human (I think Nile crocodiles and Hippos kill more but that's more to do with them inhabiting areas with humans in them)

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