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Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

nytimes.com

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Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#141

Post by roywiggins »

geor9e wrote: post #91
yummybear wrote: post #69

I really thought someone (US?) had technology (satellites) that could pinpoint radiation sources, even of this magnitude

I had the same thought briefly, but then thought more about it. These are high energy particles. You might remember the article about cosmic rays that sometimes cause a single bit flip in a videogame, and that there is no easy way to shield against it. That makes satellite imaging difficult, because how do you focus some sort of lens, if the particles go right thru everything? You might detect that a cosmic ray or io…

There are gamma-ray detectors that can determine direction:

> The LAT detects gamma rays by using Einstein’s famous E = mc2 equation in a technique known as pair production. When a gamma ray, which is pure energy, slams into a layer of tungsten in the detector, it can create a pair of subatomic particles (an electron and its antimatter counterpart, a positron). The direction of the incoming gamma ray is determined by projecting the direction of these particles back to their source using several layers of high-precision silicon tracking detectors.

https://fermi.gsfc.nasa.gov/

https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/221503main_GLAST-041508.pdf

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#142

Post by AlbertCory »

anakaine wrote: post #89
AlbertCory wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best reply on this thread. Everything in Australia kills you or at least causes horrible pain. Even that cute platypus or that harmless-looking shell on the beach. And now this.

No moose, bears, wolves, cougars, or other alpha predators in Australia though. About the worst are wild dogs / dingos, though they typically won't be a problem unless they're in a pack. I'll take Australian dangers over North American every day of the week.

I've been there three times. How about you?

Those megafauna in North America are pretty hard for a human to encounter accidentally. As opposed to these:

https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/wildlife/2013...

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#143

Post by dragonsky »

bogeholm wrote: post #103
anakaine wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No moose, bears, wolves, cougars, or other alpha predators in Australia though. About the worst are wild dogs / dingos, though they typically won't be a problem unless they're in a pack. I'll take Australian dangers over North American every day of the week.

They do have the saltwater crocodile[0], which looks close to alpha. Maybe unless it encounters an orca. I bet is has a great name in Australia - any Ozzies around who can comment? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltwater_crocodile

Only if you are stupid enough to go near the water in areas they live.

Unfortunately plenty of drunk campers have a habit of doing this.

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#144

Post by [deleted] »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #128
perihelions wrote: post #118

Some relevant-looking thing I found on Google: - "9. SEARCHING FOR RADIOACTIVE OBJECTS" - "The first part of this section describes three different airborne surveys that successfully located lost radioactive sources. The three incidents were quite different in nature and provide useful information should similar accidents occur in the future. Section 9 concludes with a discussion showing how to estimate the count rat…

> 9.2. LOCATING THE LOST ATHENA MISSILE" Where can I read more about this? How does one lose a missile?

[deleted]

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#145

Post by dividuum »

thomasmg wrote: post #29
cloudking wrote: post #17

Interview question: can you design a system to safely locate and retrieve the capsule?

I don't know if something like that would help, but in Switzerland there are annual measurement flights (with a helicopter): https://blog.alertswiss.ch/en/categories/focp-news/annual-ne... Part of this seems to be (sometimes?) to find radioactive sources: "The goal of this part of the exercise was to find two radioactive sources which, for training purposes, had been placed somewhere in an area of about 2,500 km2"

I like how they don't mention the result of that exercise. I guess they didn't find it?

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#146

Post by LatteLazy »

erentz wrote: post #111

This is really weird. FTA: "These gauges are designed to be robust and to be used in industrial settings where they may be exposed to weather and vibration,” Dr. Robertson said at a news conference on Saturday, “so it is unusual for a gauge to come apart like this one has." See also this [1] article with a picture of an example gauge. Again making the point that this is really weird: "Radiation Services WA general ma…

Thanks. I was confused why the NYT didn't include a picture of it for public safety if for no other reason...

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#147

Post by solstice »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #119
jhallenworld wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a close call in Mexico. In this case, they were trying to dispose of the source properly, but the truck was held up and stolen along the way: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/12/04/248737662...

> An estimated 300 curies of radioactive cobalt found their way to the two Mexican foundries, one of which manufactured metal table legs for shipment to the largest distributor of restaurant tables in the U.S., while the other produced steel rods used in the reinforcement of concrete building projects. About 600 tons of the contaminated steel were shipped to the U.S. from December 1983 to January 1984." How much is 3…

About 303 g according to the table in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curie_(unit)

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#148

Post by pfdietz »

car wrote: post #70
leaving wrote: post #56

This is mostly a data analysis job. If the capsule is on or very near the road, a single trip from start to finish with a NaI(Tl) or CsI scintillation counter will find it. Every CBRN team in the world has these, so they have obviously completed the first run at this without finding it. The capsule is not on or near the road. Australia is famous for road trains on the Great Northen Highway. They travel fast and heavy…

A network of scintillators in every phone would be amazing for finding stuff like this. That was my first thought too. Do you think it’s physically possible to make a MEMS scintiallation device?

There are radiation detection apps for cell phones that use the camera. Not very sensitive, but no new hardware is required.

Re: Australians scour desert for dangerous radioactive capsule smaller than a penny

#150

Post by xwdv »

pantry-man wrote: post #125
micromacrofoot wrote: post #116

I don’t really buy the “fell off a truck” story, will be very surprised if they find this before it gives someone cancer… and if whoever took it knows what they’re doing, it will never be found.

What motive would someone have to do this? Seems like a baseless conspiracy theory

It’d be very useful. Imagine having a weapon capable of killing someone off covertly. You could keep the capsule in a lead box, and whenever you want to get rid of an enemy, put the capsule somewhere close to where they sleep, and leave it there long enough to induce radiation sickness or cancer in the target. Then you could retrieve the capsule and continue this process with another enemy.
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