Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly, why don't just wait, this would make no sense from a risk rewards perspective
You want to test your app in negative scenarios, and one of them is "when and how to fail gracefully when battery is extremely low". My phone rarely goes below 10%, and maybe it has seen 5% one or two times. If Facebook waits for that, they will never run the tests. But if they detect my battery is at 10%, then drain it to 3%, launch the controlled failure testing, then drain the phone to complete shutdown, on the ne…
Facebook drains users' cellphone batteries intentionally says ex-employee
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Re: Facebook drains users' cellphone batteries intentionally says ex-employee
#32What I can't believe: Facebook shipped a feature to drain users' batteries. What I can believe: Engineers at Facebook were micromanaged into dismissing issues such as users' batteries being drained.
I think lots of companies already do stuff like this, for example, Microsoft rolls out updates to smaller groups before doing larger deployments. Google Chrome tests some experimental features before a full deployment.
It would be better if there was simply an opt-out of being part of this testing group. If the user goes to the effort of opting out, then they likely have a good reason for this. Also maybe Facebook also doesn't want to run this on devices with already bad battery performance for example.
Re: Facebook drains users' cellphone batteries intentionally says ex-employee
#33What I can't believe: Facebook shipped a feature to drain users' batteries. What I can believe: Engineers at Facebook were micromanaged into dismissing issues such as users' batteries being drained.
From the article:
I said to the manager, 'This can harm somebody,' and she said by harming a few we can help the greater masses. Any data scientist worth his or her salt will know, Don’t hurt people,Re: Facebook drains users' cellphone batteries intentionally says ex-employee
#34Kinda fishy, but the touchstone is simple:
- Does Facebook have an IRB?
- How are experiments documented and vetted?
We did not know about Plutonium Files, either (for the record, these were the experiments where plutonium and other radioactive compounds were injected into pregnant women, prisoners, mentally disabled children etc etc).
Re: Facebook drains users' cellphone batteries intentionally says ex-employee
#35I get that there was a lawsuit and the ex employee said that they what they were doing might harm people. But what were they actually doing? Draining the battery on purpose for some reason? Or was it just an unfortunate side effect of something?
Re: Facebook drains users' cellphone batteries intentionally says ex-employee
#36Re: Facebook drains users' cellphone batteries intentionally says ex-employee
#37Re: Facebook drains users' cellphone batteries intentionally says ex-employee
#38What I can't believe: Facebook shipped a feature to drain users' batteries. What I can believe: Engineers at Facebook were micromanaged into dismissing issues such as users' batteries being drained.
Re: Facebook drains users' cellphone batteries intentionally says ex-employee
#39What I can't believe: Facebook shipped a feature to drain users' batteries. What I can believe: Engineers at Facebook were micromanaged into dismissing issues such as users' batteries being drained.
Engineer A: Hey how would we know whether loading this image as a .webp vs a .jpg would perform? Our lab testing is one thing but the different hardware out there vastly differs from phone to phone -- we need some data on the whether the average phone has enough optimizations for one versus the other.
Engineer B: Oh, what if we just run a background task on some of the phones that tries loading an image that we don't show, just to get the metrics?
Engineer A: Hmnn, that could work, we could load just one image across some small % of the user base to get a representative sample and report that data to system X so we can get some statistics and make heuristics based off of that.
Ethics is not a strong suit/required reading for software engineers, so not every engineer will read the above and detect something wrong. Hell, running experiments on wide swaths of users without consent isn't quite above board ethically either, but we've got a whole technological trees and industry dedicated to it.
Most of the time the person with enough ethics knowledge to realize there's a problem here is more incentivized to alert legal (so they can add it to the EULA/ToS that users don't read) rather than stop the behavior.
I suspect many engineers could read the conversation above and not think there was anything wrong there to begin with. And of course, once X teams across Y companies start using this, we've got a problem.
Note that I use engineers for all the roles on purpose -- the idea that it's only non-engineers doing all the sketchy shit is a deflection of responsibility, I for one am pretty proud of George here -- he's turned down what is very likely a lot of money to do the right thing. We can only guess at how many do not take this route.
[EDIT] I want to note that I do not put myself above this conversation -- being able to recognize that this is wrong immediately is not some innate skill that everyone has, it has to be reasoned about, and often where to draw the line comes down to widely-enough-held social mores/morality.
For example, I run ethical ads on my personal blog -- I know that ads incur unnecessary load on user machines that visit, and in-turn burning unnecessary battery on visitors' machines. Am I the same as Facebooks' engineers that work on this system? Probably not, but explaining that completely (and convincing yourself or anyone else) is more complicated -- maybe it's only a matter of degree.
Re: Facebook drains users' cellphone batteries intentionally says ex-employee
#40Edit: yeah this is blog spam. The New York Post article it links to has all the same details but with an extra line saying Meta did not respond. https://nypost.com/2023/01/28/facebook-fires-worker-who-refu...