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Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#91

Post by 310260 »

One of the reasons 5G seems worse is because most implementations are NSA (non-standalone) right now. As others have mentioned, this means you're using the LTE network for control/signaling and 5G just for data traffic. 5G SA improves latency because it ditches the LTE signaling but it's not available everywhere on most operators yet. Verizon and AT&T are just starting to implement it. T-Mobile US has been ahead of the curve in offering 5G SA nationally for a bit now.

However, probably the most important reason 5G performance can appear worse is because NSA works via a technology called ENDC - EUTRAN New Radio Dual Connectivity. This enables your device to receive LTE from one cell site and 5G from another. LTE being there to carry the control/signaling as previously mentioned as well as improve speeds by combining LTE and 5G channels.

When you're receiving 5G from one site and LTE from another. Depending on your device and your network operators settings, more of that traffic will flow over either LTE or 5G. If your 5G channel conditions are poor (say 5G is coming from a far away site but you're also on a closer, LTE-only site), but your device is still preferring to send data mainly over the 5G leg of the connection, you could potentially see worse performance than you would on LTE alone.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#92

Post by CottonMcKnight »

kjellsbells wrote: post #45

Having the 5G logo on your phone doesnt necessarily mean your phone is speaking 5G. It's...complicated. - Most US operators do not have ubiquitous 5G radio coverage, so, they do what is called 5G NSA where your traffic ultimately ends up veing processed by the 4G core infrastructure that they have. Which is already overloaded and a bit creaky. - Some operators can do real 5G, "5G SA", where the whole flow end to end…

Verizon even markets "5G Nationwide" as "performance comparable to our award-winning 4G LTE". So what's the point?

You have to spend more $$ to get "5G Ultra Wideband" on your plan, which is the real deal.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#93

Post by s1artibartfast »

zuron7 wrote: post #79
roxgib wrote: post #50

It wouldn't be so bad if phones were better at switching to the best available signal, they they could use the efficient 5G connection when it's available, but fall back to 4G when the 5G is blocked by a building or something (which I gather is more common due to the high frequencies used in 5G). But they seem to insist on connecting to a crappy 5G signal even if an excellent 4G signal is available. Same with 3G, whi…

Phones seem to optimize for the fastest network instead of network quality. At least on Android it's possible to manually override and select a network through the hidden settings menu accessible through the phone dialler. Just hit # #4636# # and you're in.

Can you explain more provide a provide a link. This is the bane of my existence. My phone has two towers in range, one with essentially no signal and another one with four bars and it prefers the low signal Tower. It also prefers my home Wi-Fi even if I am taking a walk around the block. It is infuriating that I have a 50/50 chance of resolving a website like Hacker News with a flagship smartphone in the Bay Area

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#94

Post by bobkazamakis »

cycomanic wrote: post #85
optymizer wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked with telcos in multiple countries, I can assure you, we cannot have a lot of nice things because of them.

While I am not big on defending telcos, let's not forget that they are under enormous price pressure (for the fibre backbone essentially they need to double available throughput every 18 month or so without increasing cost) at the same time it's the software/service companies who really made enormous profits based on these developments, while data capacity is becoming more and more a commodity.

man, can you imagine if we had payed some telcos money to drop fiber that they never did?

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#95

Post by saghm »

kjellsbells wrote: post #45

Having the 5G logo on your phone doesnt necessarily mean your phone is speaking 5G. It's...complicated. - Most US operators do not have ubiquitous 5G radio coverage, so, they do what is called 5G NSA where your traffic ultimately ends up veing processed by the 4G core infrastructure that they have. Which is already overloaded and a bit creaky. - Some operators can do real 5G, "5G SA", where the whole flow end to end…

> - Most US operators do not have ubiquitous 5G radio coverage, so, they do what is called 5G NSA where your traffic ultimately ends up veing processed by the 4G core infrastructure that they have. Which is already overloaded and a bit creaky

Interesting! The first time I ever remember my phone claiming it had a 5G connection was late 2020/early 2021 (I forget the exact month, but it was within a few months of me moving to a new city). I had taken an Uber downtown, and when trying to do the same to return, I was surprised to see that I couldn't get anything to load, and my phone claimed it had a strong 5G signal. I couldn't find any way to tell it to try to use LTE instead, so I ended up having to walk maybe 10 minutes back in the direction of my apartment before my phone finally could load anything, which coincided with it showing LTE and not 5G.

never knew exactly what had caused the issue, but I suspected it might have something to do with a cell tower reporting 5G to my phone but there not actually being infrastructure to support that in the area. I wonder if something similar to what you describe was happening, and due to an OS bug or something my phone had different expectations of what communication would look like when the other end reported that 5G was supported. Does "5G SA" require any different behavior on the phone's side of things, or would any communications it receives be indistinguishable from those of "proper" 5G?

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#96

Post by spookthesunset »

kjellsbells wrote: post #45

Having the 5G logo on your phone doesnt necessarily mean your phone is speaking 5G. It's...complicated. - Most US operators do not have ubiquitous 5G radio coverage, so, they do what is called 5G NSA where your traffic ultimately ends up veing processed by the 4G core infrastructure that they have. Which is already overloaded and a bit creaky. - Some operators can do real 5G, "5G SA", where the whole flow end to end…

The “real” 5g isn’t for your phone, it is to replace your home internet.

For that, you want fast and low latency and that means a dense amount of cell towers. The fact that “real 5g” has a shorter range is actually a positive. It means you can make your shit super dense.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#98

Post by headsoup »

spookthesunset wrote: post #96
kjellsbells wrote: post #45

Having the 5G logo on your phone doesnt necessarily mean your phone is speaking 5G. It's...complicated. - Most US operators do not have ubiquitous 5G radio coverage, so, they do what is called 5G NSA where your traffic ultimately ends up veing processed by the 4G core infrastructure that they have. Which is already overloaded and a bit creaky. - Some operators can do real 5G, "5G SA", where the whole flow end to end…

The “real” 5g isn’t for your phone, it is to replace your home internet. For that, you want fast and low latency and that means a dense amount of cell towers. The fact that “real 5g” has a shorter range is actually a positive. It means you can make your shit super dense.

It's almost like we could just go back to cables and have a plenty good experience again...

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or is 5G strictly worse than LTE?

#99

Post by guhidalg »

headsoup wrote: post #98
spookthesunset wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “real” 5g isn’t for your phone, it is to replace your home internet. For that, you want fast and low latency and that means a dense amount of cell towers. The fact that “real 5g” has a shorter range is actually a positive. It means you can make your shit super dense.

It's almost like we could just go back to cables and have a plenty good experience again...

But why? If you had the choice of EQUIVALENT (bandwidth, latency, jitter, reliability, etc…) network connectivity, why pick a wire over wireless?
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