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What is Google doing with its open source teams?

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Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#281

Post by cmrdporcupine »

rurp wrote: post #209
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that in particular will freak everyone else in the company out, and .. most importantly... Google is no longer scared about those people going to their competition, because their competition is also flushing talent away. In the past, Google was willing to dump all sorts of cash into talent as long as it kept people from creating a truly competitive landscape. Now, they don't have to worry as much. The layoffs…

This reasoning seems plausible to me, but it seems to be having the opposite on employees from what I have seen. Why invest yourself in a company that will fire thousands of people for petty reasons? I think this will cause many employees to shift more focus on how to look good on paper, versus doing actual interesting or useful work that might fly under the radar.

Google makes so much money on ad revenues that their entire workforce could be completely lazy and unproductive and get almost nothing done and they'd still have money to burn.

Ads is a money printing machine. The most important roles there are SRE, data centre, and ops/infra jobs that keep the machine up and running.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#282

Post by science4sail »

theturtletalks wrote: post #167
mardifoufs wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waze has been consistently better, especially for traffic rerouting. It's also way better at letting you know about road events, like accidents, than Google Maps. Maps is better to search stuff on a map, but for navigation, it is so barebones (and not even in a good minimalist way). I'm not sure how GMaps can still lag so far behind when Waze is also owned by Google.

They run them as separate teams and don’t necessarily collaborate. Marking Police traps had been on Waze for years and Google Maps just got it last year.

Waze isn't a separate team anymore - it got merged into Maps[0], which means that its probably going to join the Google Graveyard in the next cost-cutting round[1].

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33903016 [1] https://killedbygoogle.com/

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#283

Post by cmrdporcupine »

temp-goog wrote: post #221
bbor wrote: post #36

As a google employee (who obviously has no privileged info) I really don’t buy this whole activist-investor explanation for the layoffs. Besides the fact that the investors in question own I’m much more convinced by the argument that they saw this sector-wide wave of layoffs as an opportunity to scare their engineers and change the culture to be a more intense, hierarchical one. Google engineering culture has long be…

Here’s some reliable second-hand information I’m posting on this one-off account. Take this with whatever degree of salt you wish. My understanding from somebody in a position to know is each VP was given a target/quota of cuts. Then they basically had big spreadsheets with salaries and performance ratings, and then pseudo-blindly cut teams or people to make quotas without input from directors/managers, and gave thos…

Yep. I think it really is the end for them as a company with a reputation for attracting really bright people. They were in decline over the last 6-7 years, but now Sundar really really blew it. The sheen will just wear off more and more until they just look like any another spent SV company from the past.

There was I'm sure a way to make a whole restructuring or cost cutting process happen in a way that could have salvaged their reputation. But they didn't spend any effort trying to find it.

And if ad spend drops significantly and/or there's actual anti-monopoly enforcement against them, it will really accelerate things.

They have enough $$ they can coast for years, but it isn't going to be pretty.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#284

Post by biztos »

defrost wrote: post #275
biztos wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Canary Islands it took us down a utility road that was literally being used as a mountain mike trail. We were in an Opel Corso. Fortunately a beater, and my friend’s superior driving skill got us out, but just barely. We were resigned to abandoning the car… and Google had treated it just like a regular paved road.

Probably best to avoid the Connie Sue Highway and other roads of the Len Beadell desert network then.

TIL... for someone like me who's never been to Australia and doesn't know much about its geography, that's a pretty crazy story!

And it turns out Connie Sue is still out there, running desert tours except not now because of lingering Covid restrictions.

> Connie's work background started with 10 years of general nursing and midwifery, 14 years as a violinist in the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra and has studied Computer Systems Engineering at TAFE part-time.

Interesting people!

http://www.beadelltours.com.au/interest.html

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#285

Post by cmrdporcupine »

temp-goog wrote: post #224
bbor wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I’ve seen this a lot. I really hope that isn’t the reason, cause if so it didn’t even work that well…

What, exactly, makes Sundar qualified to be CEO? In my view, nothing. He’s at best a figure head for Ruth who actually calls the shots. He’s done nothing as CEO other than keep Larry and Sergei’s piggy bank full. He’s just a moderately intelligent man way over his head, doing what other people tell him, without ever making a tough call.

For me the decline began when Ruth took over from Patrick, and when the whole Alphabet-ization thing was (clumsily) executed. It was clear at the time they had no idea what they were doing. At all-hands Larry & Sergey couldn't answer basic questions about the strategy and how it would affect large parts of the company (I was in the 'Access' PA at the time -- the PA that ran Fiber, and launched Google WiFi, et -- and Sergey didn't even seem to get that it existed,). They had mentally checked out, and it was obvious.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#286

Post by canucker2016 »

theturtletalks wrote: post #167
mardifoufs wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waze has been consistently better, especially for traffic rerouting. It's also way better at letting you know about road events, like accidents, than Google Maps. Maps is better to search stuff on a map, but for navigation, it is so barebones (and not even in a good minimalist way). I'm not sure how GMaps can still lag so far behind when Waze is also owned by Google.

They run them as separate teams and don’t necessarily collaborate. Marking Police traps had been on Waze for years and Google Maps just got it last year.

The Maps/Waze teams merge has been underway since 2022 Dec 9.

see https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/08/tech/google-waze-maps-merge/i...

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#287

Post by zeruch »

gumby wrote: post #243
nvarsj wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME, having worked with "tech celebrities", the veneer they can work so hard on maintaining isn't exactly reflective of actually working with them. I worked with one particularly famous person, who barely did anything internally, and spent all their time on external conferences and talks to preserve their external reputation - mostly coasting on past accomplishments. Not saying that's what happened here, but public v…

> IME, having worked with "tech celebrities", the veneer they can work so hard on maintaining...Not saying that's what happened here... I know both Chris and Jeremy well and I wouldn't imagine either of them trying to "maintain a veneer"

Knowing Jeremy fairly well, I would certainly agree on that.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#288

Post by lunarhustler »

AStellersSeaCow wrote: post #189

Current Googler, I have no insider info at all, found out about this the same Friday morning as everyone else. Everything expressed here is speculation based on my own observations and conversations with HR leaders at Google and other companies involved in this round of industry layoffs. It's unfortunately not surprising that some current and rising stars in the open source world were impacted by this. There's an imp…

I was under impression that in America you have at-will employment.

Isn't Google able to just perform mass firings then? Or are there some legal barriers / costs to doing that, as opposed to layoffs?

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#289

Post by GauntletWizard »

enos_feedler wrote: post #279
GauntletWizard wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to argue at all, but for some of those hires "Maintain Google's Brand Image in X Category" is their job - They're not there to work hard and drive innovation in those sectors, but to represent that Google hires and does work in that area.

Imagine learning that was your job.

It's not uncommon; There's a title for it - "Brand ambassador" - Though it's often the case that your official job title is something different while you act in that role. I doubt people in that position have illusions about what their role is, and in fact most are probably offered the choice of how much they lean into the branding and how much "Real Work" they do, with expectations set around "You are famous/known for X, we want X people to like us, go off and talk about X to cast us in positive light".

Pretty comparable is "Developer Advocate". The job is to grease the wheels between people using your services and the developers developing them. In that role, they playact as both customer and provider, both to developers and consumers. An awful lot of Developer Advocates are mediocre at both, but you don't need to be good; In fact, in some ways being mediocre is a plus, because the point is to represent each side to the other.

Whereas, the people who have done great things and spend their time on brand instead of "Doing X"; Often they are coasting on reputation, but it's a form of retirement for them. They still like X. They still want to do X, but as a hobby, and getting paid to talk about X and get others excited about X is like having your cake and eating it.

Re: What is Google doing with its open source teams?

#290

Post by defrost »

biztos wrote: post #284
defrost wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably best to avoid the Connie Sue Highway and other roads of the Len Beadell desert network then.

TIL... for someone like me who's never been to Australia and doesn't know much about its geography, that's a pretty crazy story! And it turns out Connie Sue is still out there, running desert tours except not now because of lingering Covid restrictions. > Connie's work background started with 10 years of general nursing and midwifery, 14 years as a violinist in the Adelaide Symphony Orchestra and has studied Computer…

Long before I wrote earth scale digital mapping software in 1990s (yes, before google Maps .. and even Keyhole) I was taught how to use a theodolite by Len Beadall (I was ~ 12 or so at the time and pretty keen).

If you're interested in the landscape those roads pass through, here's a 13 minute intro:

Good roads until 6:00 minutes in .. and then they take the David Carnegie Rd.

Desert Raid 2017 - Two Days From Death

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL44EAyz8Qc

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