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Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

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601–610 of 835 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#601

A lot of this is related to inequality, value of labour detaching from wealth, and the increasing unaffordability of life. The material conditions of regular people are continuously getting worse as more and more of their income is stripped away by rent seeking oligopolies, mainly increasing housing costs but depending on your jurisdiction all sorts of other costs (eg. cable and mobile phone costs an issue in some pl…

Am I wrong to think these are just a typical Marxist class-struggle talking points?

At any rate, blaming the problems on inequality seems a lot like seeing everything as nail when all you have is a hammer. I'm not sure why OP's complaint that people don't care as much, or that they are loud and inconsiderate, necessarily has anything to do with inequality. The might feel like there's no chance to get ahead so I'm just going to not care and act inconsiderate. Or they might just be selfish, perhaps because we have ads constantly telling people "get the X you deserve". Or they might be selfish because that's human nature and since society rarely goes to church any more (only 31% attend weekly, 42% at least once a month [1]) they don't hear anything telling them that selfishness is "wrong". I'm sure you can think of other reasons that have nothing to do with economics or oppression.

Furthermore, I'm not sure that inequality produces not caring or inconsideration. Take the 1920s, which had higher levels of inequality than now [2]. People born in that decade are part of the "Greatest Generation", known for their self-sacrifice, not selfishness. My impression is that civic mindedness was actually a thing back then. And it's hard to tell what is representative looking back 100 years, but the buildings from that era seem to be well-built, and you see pictures of working class people in suits (I've seen one with men lounging around a seawall in suits, which you'd never see today). So I dispute that inequality necessarily produces what the OP complains about. (I also think the OP is also not seeing the unpleasant parts of the recent past.)

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/245491/church-attendance...

[2] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Historical-economic-ineq...

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#602

> People are noisy as fuck and dont seem to give a shit. Seems like every night there's someone with loud as exhaust on "sportish" car ripping around the neihborhood. For months this guy would start up his loud car at 7am and no one care when I complained. > Police seem to not give a shit anymore. I've noticed what seems to be total lawlessness going on in my world. Folks stealing shit. People driving absurdly danger…

As others have pointed out: this is the society becoming more liberal. The great triumph of liberalism has been removing the government's influence on social norms, and how we engage non-violently with one another in general. Where the modern Left has gone off the rails is insisting that we also cannot reinforce good behavior and shame bad behavior, mostly the latter, through non-violent social interactions. It's gre…

I have stronger value judgements on people enforcing religious believes on others, don't care so much for pyjamas.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes 0 sense to me.

TL;DR Sure tech progress is cool, but it's hard to care when I feel more isolated from my community than ever, the world feels "angry", and in many important ways my life feels much worse off than just a few years ago. The meme about "but living standards doubling every X years!" is little comfort when you can't feel any of those impacts - not to mention that the material is scarcely the only thing that matters for h…

I think the challenge is that the doubling of life standards is happening for people at the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy of needs (i.e. basic survival to a comfortable life).

Most of the HN audience is likely at self-actualization stage where its going to be hard for society to help double life standards when every one's such standard is decided in such a deeply personal way for each individual. [1] It's also going to be really hard to measure progress on this front at a societal level.

[1] The importance of Maslow's hierarchy of needs

https://www.theschooloflife.com/article/the-importance-of-ma...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0PKWTta7lU

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#604
I attribute it primarily to lack of appreciation for the foundation of civilization: Private property.

Violations of private property are primarily done through the state, which socializes costs and thereby both reduces incentives for responsible behaviour and increases incentives to be dependent and irresponsible. Less wealth is created, more wealth is squandered.

Many who raise democracy to an practically religious status also contribute to this decline, as it overshadows much more important cultural values, such as free and open public discourse, decentralized / local governance and of course private property. It's almost as if, as long as you're in the majority, anything goes, perverse incentives be damned.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#605
Yeah, things have gotten markedly worse, objectively worse. Which is not to say things have not been bad before, or even worse before. I definitely think we’re in a local decline and I expect the decline to continue.

It’s harder to escape crime and noise. It’s harder buy decent food. It’s harder to earn a decent wage. People are increasingly narcissistic. I think lobbyists have gotten better at their jobs at corrupting politics.

But there used to be razor gangs roaming the cities, Charles Babbage was hounded to an early grave by street musicians. Rancid food would be laced with dangerous chemicals to cover up the smell. People used to be proud of having the Disease of Kings (gout), and is hard to imagine a greater corruption of politics than the South East India company, or the Robber Barons.

I think it’s a reversion to the mean; It is post WWII America that is the aberration and we’re now living in the afterglow of that. We seem to be trending towards some kind of feudalism and that is really going to suck for the vast majority of people.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#606

What interests me most about the current zeitgeist is that there is an generalized, or at least spreading, feeling of emptiness. What replaces religion to fill this gap for a new generation who is not religious? (including myself) Something very clear, a philosophy of life of some kind that people can adopt to feel like they are part of something bigger, without that something being a fictional being. And without dev…

When you say "to feel like they are part of something bigger", does the bigger thing have to be true? Does it have to be big enough to hold everyone (in some way)? I suspect what you are sensing is society's vulnerability to the Neichian überman.

> Zarathustra first announces the Übermensch as a goal humanity can set for itself. All human life would be given meaning by how it advanced a new generation of human beings.

Quote from Wikipedia above

I had heard the term uber mensch before but I had presumed it referred to something else entirely.

In this context your question of whether the bigger thing needs to be "true" seems subjective. Is wanting human beings to work towards a better present and future for others a "truth"?

But in the sense that it is something true and not fictional like god, then yes to me true here means real and logical.

I don't understand what you mean by the "hold everyone" part though. If you mean that everyone on earth could adopt this philosophy or identify with part of it, obviously that would be great but quite impossible.

However you say "vulnerability" to the uberman, so having only given the Wikipedia article a quick once through, am I to understand that the idea presented is flawed or taps into a flawed part of humanity that wants to believe it to be possible?

I think your comment is probably the most curious I've been about getting an answer ever on HN.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not wrong, but THAT is the item you want evidence on? Especially here. This seems disingenuous.

Innovation in narrow fields is not representive of the greater whole. Sure, generative AI is booming, but mobile phones and computers haven’t evolved practically at all in the last 5 years. The general rate of innovation can be somewhat gauged in the increase of living standards, and to my understanding there has been little the past 10 years (in the West in general).

>but mobile phones and computers haven’t evolved practically at all in the last 5 years.

Lets do a fact check on this, that time span is the iphone X to iphone 14 Pro. Taking one metric, the geekbench score has gone from 2156 to 5383. So in that time phones have become more twice as fast. It released with ios 11, I wont even bother to list all the major improvements between 11 and 16 because it's a huge list.

There is so much more to expand on this but when even the most obvious stats show dramatic improvement, there isn't any point detailing the differences in camera, connectivity, features, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#608
You are not off-base. Your reflections on your society are sound, and you do right in raising them for discussion. The fact that you can (and should) is part of what democracy is about. If you think something ought to be better, then why not try to engage and influence your community with your ideas? Don't leave it to the politicians (and companies) to dictate what is valuable in your country.

Easier said than done, I know, but imagine if we all actually made an effort to shape our society, and took responsibility for it.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you dress that way to meet your partner's parents for the first time? Or to see a friend you haven't seen in years? Or to represent your company at an event? What about going somewhere where you are expected to be a role model? Of course not. That's because you give a shit about the impression you give in those situations and understand the kind of atmosphere and impression it gives if you dress like a bum. Now…

Love reading sentiments like this on Hacker News. Hackers are so well-known for their adherence to social norms on dressing up.

These days if you dress nicely you're not adhering to social norms. People feel uncomfortable.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#610

You're not off base regarding the cars and the crime. It is well documented. There has been an increase in traffic accidents the last three years and I have been following it because I wondered myself if I noticed it. NHTSA gives an update biannually I think. Road traffic deaths per mile driven increased in 2020, 2021, and 2022. I think it's still unknown if this is starting to revert to the pre pandemic mean but I h…

> There has been an increase in traffic accidents the last three years and I have been following it because I wondered myself if I noticed it.

Since you're not citing any, I'm going to just go off the first figures I found which go until 2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...

Yes it went up, yes you should pay attention and fix it if reasonably possible. But keep it in perspective: it went from a near all-time low of 1.1 "Fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled" in 2019 to 1.3 which is roughly the level of 2007. For every five hundred million miles, you'd see one more fatality (or, per hundred million miles, 0.2 more). You cannot convince me that anyone can tell this difference more reliably than a coin flip could, even if your job involved being on the road.

Is a three-years-in-a-row increase unprecedented? No, just three years before the start of this three-year increase also saw the end of three consecutive years of increased road fatalities, and starting from roughly the same value (~1.1) to end up a bit less bad than now (1.2 vs. 1.3). How much above statistical significance that is, it doesn't say.

Deaths aren't the whole story but after clicking on the 'more info' link that leads to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_U...>, the graphs and tables are basically all labeled 'deaths', 'killed', and 'fatalities'. Maybe the crash rate is noticeable, but people aren't good at noticing slow trends. I'd not be surprised if the average person wouldn't notice a 50% increase (provided proportionate news coverage, i.e. same amount of air time per crash) when smeared out across a year and starting with a "rare but definitely not unheard of" value which is what road accidents currently are (I've never been in one after a decade of driving, but I know people that have been so it's not surprising to hear of it or to end up in one). More likely, the news coverage went up, or someone mentioned that the stats were up and then you registered subsequent crash reports more.

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