Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#371

Post by josephg » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:22 PM UTC

meheleventyone wrote: post #242

eldritch_4ier wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not that intellectual or complicated. Just don't dress like a bum in public? Not everything needs a theorem or rigorous, tested, scientifically researched set of rules. Nobody is asking you to walk around in a 3 piece suit, there is no slippery slope or conspiracy theory here, it's just "dress like you give a shit about the public space and others in it".

But that’s a subjective criteria and one that’s obviously ripe for subversion. What about people’s right to freedom of expression?

Express yourself however you want. People respond to you putting effort in, even if it’s in a direction they wouldn’t go themself.

The minimum effort is being clean enough that you don’t smell and don’t have visible skid marks on your clothes. Stinking up a cafe is antisocial.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#372

Post by stirfish » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:22 PM UTC

eldritch_4ier wrote: post #237

ok_dad wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It only affects people who care about what other people wear, and those people shouldn’t have any sort of societal influence because that’s stupid. Name literally one reason that wearing pajamas in public will cause another person actual harm and I’ll take back this statement.

Would you dress that way to meet your partner's parents for the first time? Or to see a friend you haven't seen in years? Or to represent your company at an event? What about going somewhere where you are expected to be a role model? Of course not. That's because you give a shit about the impression you give in those situations and understand the kind of atmosphere and impression it gives if you dress like a bum. Now…

Would you hang out in your pajamas with your best buds? Of course you would. Try having the same level of comfort with your community, with your public spaces, with the people who share those public spaces with you. It's called living a normal, happy life.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#373

Post by meheleventyone » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:23 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #260

meheleventyone wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it’s your subjective opinion you want to force on everyone else but previously didn’t want to admit is the case because it shows there is no actual argument as to why anyone else should agree. Like the clashes over wearing headscarves in Iran where people are literally being killed an imprisoned over that subjective value disagreement. “Everyone should share my values” is essentially an extreme position.

Thinking that it’s beneficial for people to live in beautiful buildings without pollution is my subjective opinion?

But you’ve changed the subject. We were discussing what people were wearing.

And as obvious yes if you personally think that it’s very acutely your subjective opinion. You are literally telling us your opinion. You couldn’t get a clearer example of something that’s subjective.

There’s a worrying level of philosophical paucity here.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#374

Post by harvey9 » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:23 PM UTC

treis wrote: post #205

travisgriggs wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pajama pants are just decorative scrubs. Medical people go out in those all the time. You’re welcome to wear your denim scrubs as well.

While this is neither here nor there wearing scrubs out is a relatively new phenomenon. In fact, even wearing them around the hospital is pretty new too. They started as something you changed into when needed and then changed out of when the procedure was over.

I've seen scrubs in use as routine shift wear for about 20 years. Easy enough to get fresh ones if they get soiled mid shift.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#375

Post by jlawson » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:23 PM UTC

meheleventyone wrote: post #242

eldritch_4ier wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not that intellectual or complicated. Just don't dress like a bum in public? Not everything needs a theorem or rigorous, tested, scientifically researched set of rules. Nobody is asking you to walk around in a 3 piece suit, there is no slippery slope or conspiracy theory here, it's just "dress like you give a shit about the public space and others in it".

But that’s a subjective criteria and one that’s obviously ripe for subversion. What about people’s right to freedom of expression?

There's an absolutely massive space for freedom of expression within the bounds of "not looking like shit".

Nobody needs to look (or smell) like garbage to 'express' themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#376

Post by BlueTemplar » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:23 PM UTC

YMMV of course, but literally none of these apply to me, partially because of luck maybe, partially because I steered clear of bullshit.

Funnily enough, IMHO Pinker is a fool : in the West we have been living above our means since at last the 80s and the bill started to come due since at least 2008 : I expect things to get worse, and not start to get better for decades, maybe more, depending on our choices and sheer luck (and some places will be better off than others).

Speaking of frauds, I wouldn't trade my life with any of theirs, they are going to pay dearly for them, and already started to.

(Paragraph numbers would be nice in such a varied dump.)

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#377

Post by zug_zug » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:23 PM UTC

cedws wrote: post #308

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #274

I don't know your age but I'm going to guess 30+. This is just happens when you get old. When you were younger you probably noticed that all the older people you knew pined for some earlier time (say the 1970s or 1950s). And you probably thought they were being silly. Well, now you've become one of those people. The fact is the world always seems better when you are younger, not because the world necessarily better,…

I'm 21 and I think everything's going to shit as well... is it doomerism or reality? Politicians appear increasingly corrupt and selfish. Geopolitics are becoming less stable. Innovation is coming to a standstill. The average person just wants a decent job, a nice place to live, and maybe a family. All of these are becoming more and more difficult to achieve. Is it any wonder kids are checking out of life en masse?

Those are a bunch of statements that angry people with agree with, but you haven't presented any evidence for your claims, and I think they're mostly backward.

We're in the longest period of peace in thousands of years. Check out this cool graphic that puts in perspective: http://www.fallen.io/ww2/

People are mad about politics, but I don't think it's any worse than the cold-war, kennedy assassination, mcarthyism, being drafted to Nam. Reagan was a movie-star who became president.

Innovation is the fastest its ever been.

It's hard to say how corruption is changing, and whether accountability is greater or lesser now.

People are upset about the environment now, but consider stuff from the last 100 years (leaded gasoline, the banned-pesticides, radioactive toothpaste, etc etc).

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#378

Post by throwitawayplz » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:24 PM UTC

Some counterpoint though I don’t totally disagree.

- had a guy playing loud music outside our building in the middle of the night, called police regularly and they would come and address it, mostly useless but at least they cared. - another guy did the same thing, I asked him to stop and he did, no trouble - my current landlord is about as good or slightly better than other landlords I’ve had over the last 15 years - other people on my block (Brooklyn NY) are mostly very friendly, neighbors help each other out, say hello, etc. - I have approximately 1 bad encounter with someone per year in transit, which is about what I had when I lived in another major metropolitan area in a “friendlier” country 15 years ago

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#379

Post by tarsinge » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:24 PM UTC

fuball63 wrote: post #78

I'll preface this by saying this is all anecdotal evidence based on my personal observations, so it may not apply to everyone. I often feel the same way, especially with tech. For those of us that remember before the internet was ubiquitous, the optimism and promise of the "information super highway" seems in stark contrast with what we see today. I try to keep in mind a few things: First, we are living in a time tha…

I say this without a political agenda but regarding the diminishing returns of consumption I think there is larger issue that is boiling: there is a huge existential crisis boiling due to the failing of consumerism and growth as the promised way to happiness and so as a goal in life. It’s paradoxical but all that progress has made it obvious that earning more to consume more is pointless because there is already so much available. The whole social contract that was implicit in the last decades/century suddenly has disappeared, climate change and pollution being additional nails in the coffin.

It sounds dramatic but I think the issues OP cites are because people are lost because they are suddenly waking up in a life that was on rails, experiencing a big existential crisis. It used to be a trope, but I think it’s happening for real now, the meaninglessness is becoming impossible to ignore.

But I’m with you on the optimistic side, because we now have so much opportunities to make interesting things and be happy if we can overcome that. For me the passing of relatives and stoic philosophy had already set me on the path of looking outside consumption (and status) for meaning.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#380

Post by dahart » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:24 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #278

ignoramous wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of this tweet by Derek Thompson (writer at The Atlantic ): In 2022, we: - Reversed organ death in pigs - Made the first embryo from stem cells - Made a pan-influenza vaccine - Saw the beginning of time - Got best-ever results from cancer & obesity therapy trials - Maybe cracked the case of multiple sclerosis From: https://twitter.com/DKThomp/status/1600864770751860737 ( https://archive.is/pi95L )

To be clear I'm not suggesting that specific advancements aren't being made. It's more like things that matter are going away and the things we're getting do not affect most of us. eg: something like 99.95% of the planet (all but 1-2 Million) have 0 or near 0 benefit from most of those findings (save for maybe the vaccine). But important things are going away -- treating people well, having happy lives, justice and b…

> eg: something like 99.95% of the planet have 0 or near 0 benefit from most of those findings

This is not the right way to evaluate the benefits of science. This is the year those advancements start having an affect. The same thing was true about microchips the year they were invented, and about radioactivity, and even about the health benefits of washing hands and drinking clean water. All scientific discoveries are an investment in the future, and those four I just mentioned have at this point touched nearly every single person on the planet, just like the above list may well do in the future.

There isn’t strong evidence that the things you mentioned are actually going away, why do you believe it’s true? Women and minorities are getting more justice and fair treatment than they have in the past. People treating each other well is subjective, and it’s arguable how well they ever did in the past. But murder, violent crime, property crime and hate crime rates have all gone down for the past ~40 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States Happiness is also subjective, but take a look at the Human Development Index and note how all 66 countries in the list on this page have a positive year-over-year growth rate. All of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index