Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

news.ycombinator.com

241–250 of 835 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because multiple scales of value exist does not imply that all scales are equal or meaningless entirely.

Right but that’s a non-answer because norms change over time and place and that can only happen if people are allowed to change them over time and place. All you’re saying is that it’s subjective in a clouded way. At best you’re basically being left behind the cultural norm and probably should catch up.

No, it just means that norms should align with values. I have certain values and think that caring about aesthetics (personal appearance, nice architecture, clean spaces, beautiful art) results in a society that is better for me and other people.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how far do you go? Using that approach, people 100 years ago wearing a suit and tie and a hat would probably want to ban what we wear today, on the grounds of broken glass theory. Yet we are (I presume) law abiding citizens here, etc.

It's really not that intellectual or complicated. Just don't dress like a bum in public? Not everything needs a theorem or rigorous, tested, scientifically researched set of rules. Nobody is asking you to walk around in a 3 piece suit, there is no slippery slope or conspiracy theory here, it's just "dress like you give a shit about the public space and others in it".

But that’s a subjective criteria and one that’s obviously ripe for subversion. What about people’s right to freedom of expression?

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#243
> It's like no body seems to give a shit about anyone except themselves anymore. Whats the cause of this? What's the solution?

Be the change you want to see. If you want your police be tougher on crime, then get informed and involved in local politics. Participation in anything but national politics is completely abysmal, and practically non-existent if you don't include the seniors. Most people don't even know the names of their DA or city councilors, let alone their positions or how competent they are.

> And then they use RealPage to collude to make prices higher[1]

Along the lines of being more informed, this almost certainly is untrue. Realpage is a service that landlords use to find the optimal pricing for their units. Unless RealPage controls the entirety the market, which they don't, the optimal market price for each individual landlord would be different from the colluded price, and they would be offering a substandard product for landlords. The price that landlords pay to use their service is based on square footage, so they have no incentive to facilitate collusion anyways.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#244
post #7

I think you're way off base. It's called rosy retrospection, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection . As you already mentioned in your comments, you're judging the past disproportionately more positive that the present. If you really want to know if everything is declining, try measure it everyday for the next five years. For example, every day, rate your personal well being, track how (un)happy you are wit…

Do you have some data that says this is off base besides some general Wikipedia concept? The OP reported direct observations.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#245
post #7

I think you're way off base. It's called rosy retrospection, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection . As you already mentioned in your comments, you're judging the past disproportionately more positive that the present. If you really want to know if everything is declining, try measure it everyday for the next five years. For example, every day, rate your personal well being, track how (un)happy you are wit…

This is just personal but anytime I feel similar to the OP, I watch something by Hans Rosling [1] or Anna Rosling [2]. Although 10 and 5 years old respectively, I feel the general sentiment is still true - that human progress is slow, in the background and might be ebbing and flowing in your specific sub-population. And when compared to the present, media narrative driven present its hard to see the improvements happ…

Reminds me of this tweet by Derek Thompson (writer at The Atlantic):

In 2022, we:

- Reversed organ death in pigs

- Made the first embryo from stem cells

- Made a pan-influenza vaccine

- Saw the beginning of time

- Got best-ever results from cancer & obesity therapy trials

- Maybe cracked the case of multiple sclerosis

From: https://twitter.com/DKThomp/status/1600864770751860737 (https://archive.is/pi95L)

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#246
post #44

I think we're on the verge/in the middle of a stagnating/shrinking pie. When we're not growing in population and wealth things get dark as people chase zero-sum short term gains at the expense of others. Distrust runs rampant, people turn to the extraction of their peers vs expansion with their new friends. It will get better. Edit: Think bigger than the extractors!

The pie is still getting bigger very quickly. It's the share of the pie that belongs to the 99% or even 99.9% that is getting smaller. Recall those stats saying "the top x richest people in the US have more wealth than the bottom y% of Americans". The ratios they present have only been getting more extreme over time. The latest report from Oxfam[1] says things like:

* In the last 10 years, billionaires have doubled their wealth, making nearly six times more than the increase in wealth seen by the bottom 50%.

* Since 2020, for every dollar the bottom 90% have gained, billionaires have gained $1.7m.

* 81 Billionaires hold more wealth than 50% of the world combined.

* During the worst of the pandemic, according to the World Bank, the income losses among the poorest 40% of humanity were twice as large as among the richest 20%, and global income inequality has risen for the first time in decades.

See Section 1.1 for the big hitter statistics. Chapter 2 goes into the whys, which corresponds pretty closely to a description of what you could call a cartel operation conducted by the global elite.

...so not only is the pie already insanely skewed, but the companies that these people control are raising profit margins on essential goods and services during a time where those who are already precariously-positioned in our economy are losing out on income opportunities so fast that global progress on income inequality reversed during this time.

This is literally entirely about the extraction being done by the class of people who have executive control over the policies and mechanisms of extraction -- minerals/metals/water/fossil fuels/generally physical extraction, predatory/extractive behaviors in finance, privatization vis a vis a minimization of accountability which acts as a force multiplier for extraction, etc.

These are those who pat themselves and each other on the back for flying on planes powered by kerosene to a centralized location to make non-binding, unenforceable gestures in the loose shape of policy at periodic COP and Davos summits. These are those who pacify and distract the masses with unified narrative-making campaigns to manufacture consent for the status quo -- lies like "recycling is an individual problem" and "privatization and unregulated markets are prosperous economies", as well as redirections and mislabelings like "wouldn't more cops (guns) in school mean children will be safer?" and "through our cameras you can see violent, out-of-state rioters in the streets".

A wealth tax is not an insane idea. It is a gentle brake that allows us to regain enough control of our earth-ship to maneuver around the imminent obstacles. We can talk about more radical steps if you want, I'm all about more active global economic management, but we need to recognize what this system is becoming.

[1] https://webassets.oxfamamerica.org/media/documents/survival-...

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right but that’s a non-answer because norms change over time and place and that can only happen if people are allowed to change them over time and place. All you’re saying is that it’s subjective in a clouded way. At best you’re basically being left behind the cultural norm and probably should catch up.

No, it just means that norms should align with values. I have certain values and think that caring about aesthetics (personal appearance, nice architecture, clean spaces, beautiful art) results in a society that is better for me and other people.

Yes, it’s your subjective opinion you want to force on everyone else but previously didn’t want to admit is the case because it shows there is no actual argument as to why anyone else should agree. Like the clashes over wearing headscarves in Iran where people are literally being killed an imprisoned over that subjective value disagreement.

“Everyone should share my values” is essentially an extreme position.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#248

A lot of this is related to inequality, value of labour detaching from wealth, and the increasing unaffordability of life. The material conditions of regular people are continuously getting worse as more and more of their income is stripped away by rent seeking oligopolies, mainly increasing housing costs but depending on your jurisdiction all sorts of other costs (eg. cable and mobile phone costs an issue in some pl…

> A lot of this is related to inequality, value of labour detaching from wealth, and the increasing unaffordability of life.

Inequality is declining by every measurable metric in the United States.

Edit: To answer the folk naysaying with their ten second Google searches, the income inequality rate has declined between 2007 and 2019(1), helped by a strong wage recovery in the late 2010s. The share of wealth held by the top 10% peaked around 2015 and has declined steadily since. 2022 was a very bad year for equity markets and has hit wealthy households particularly hard.

These are all pretty findable and uncontroversial statistics, but unfortunately one political tribe has invested a lot of capital in the notion inequality is inexorably increasing, so there’s a lot of pundit mileage in contorting these stats.(2) Which is sad, because these stats are good news for anyone who truly cares about inequality.

(1) I’m book-ending at 2019 because pandemic era macro is weird, and will take us some years to understand.

(2) I’m not making a partisan point here - stats are stats, and both political tribes lie endlessly about them when convenient.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We agree with eachother. My point was the lack of longterm thinking. Not that projects have to be delayed but much but 10% today can have a compounding ROI for 2-5yrs (or however long that system lives) . I noticed this on gitprime btw. My code churn rate was waaaay below my peers. So basically if I merged a line of code to main, it tended to not need updating for years.

Gotta satisfy the stockholders and all they care about is the earnings in the next quarter...

But that makes no sense because the ROI on any feature is easily >12 months. You can't pay an engineer $20K for a month to build something and hope to make that $20K back that same quarter. The ROI on software development is easily 12 months, often years. So the investor is already betting on a future that exists 12 months from now, why not make it the best 12 month outcome?

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#250
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>being a grown-ass adult in pajamas out in public I'm with you about all the other things but people wearing whatever clothes they want to affects you in literally no way shape or form.

Dress how you want in your own house. The public space isn't yours and you don't have a right to dress indecently in the public space. Turns out, some of us want to live in a society that takes itself seriously and gives a shit. Walking around in your Cookie Monster PJs just doesn't cut it. THIS mindset is what I think is the root of all the other listed problems. Somehow freedom has come to mean "I can do whatever I…

Holy crackers.

When I see a person wearing PJs in public, I think -- actually, I guess I don't really think about it beyond "huh.. PJs in public." You're out there stewing on it, writing about it on the internet, and literally thinking that people wearing things you don't like is stemming from a mindset that's at the root of society's problems.

This casual insight into madness is what keeps the internet exciting.

Post reply on HN