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We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

newscientist.com

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Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#51

Post by debacle »

A friend of mine runs homeless shelters for those that society finds truly deplorable. Sex offenders, ex convicts, and people who for some reason I can't understand are excluded from our emergency mental health system.

His facilities have a cost of care that is 25% of what the state has paid in the past. They have intensive rehabilitation programs, and serve the communities in multiple cities remarkably well.

His work is under fire from all sides. The Democrats don't like him because of the color of his skin, because he is a Christian (though his facilities aren't), and because he has privatized to some degree a system that was previously union work. The Republicans don't like him because they see these people as deserving life in jail (or a worse fate), and his work as "socialism" (because he's housing the homeless).

He exists in a really precarious position - by properly balancing his political detractors, he is "allowed" to service the community.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#52

Post by vkou »

bscphil wrote: post #37
SCdF wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never met a left wing person who is pro landlord, is this some weird American spin on "the left"?

I'm fairly confident by "the left" they mean "wealthy California liberals", so basically, not the left. If you think that by virtue of being the most "left leaning" cities, San Francisco and Los Angeles must be left wing, it's not that far fetched. Unfortunately this idea is undermined by actually having lived in one of these cities.

Indeed. The 'Liberal' cities are socially liberal, but economically conservative, so they are full of initiatives like legalizing marijuana and mushrooms and rainbow-painted crosswalks and naked bike rides, while at the same time, pushing back hard on any economic solutions to housing.

(Conservative areas are generally both socially, and economically conservative. I know someone will mention Utah's housing first program, and I'll cut them off at the pass, by pointing out that subsequent governments have been severely under investing in it.)

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#54

Post by dragonwriter »

tommiegannert wrote: post #49

This doesn't seem to address that if you are the nicest place to move to as homeless, more will move there, perpetuating the need for the chosen solution. I'm all for helping people, but if it's not sustainable, it will eventually screw everyone, not just the previously homeless.

> This doesn’t seem to address that if you are the nicest place to move to as homeless, more will move there, perpetuating the need for the chosen solution.

That mitigates its effectiveness as a local solution, but that problem is in turn mitigated when you move it up to wider regions (and particularly when you move it up to jurisdictions with some form of border control.)

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#55

Post by jasmer »

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #41

I wish this article were more specific on what "housing first" means. My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that homeless shelters across the country have empty beds, and that these are not considered housing. When the article describes an alternative of providing the homeless "housing," what does this housing look like? What aspects of housing are provided that are not generally provided at homeless shelters…

Basically something that resembles a home aka apartment.

'Shelters' are not close to that. They are places to 'kind of sleep' and that's usually it.

It's not a 'home' if you have to share a room with 40 other smelly people and you have to be out by morning. There is a lot of theft, violence, many homeless find it much more peacable to sleep rough than in a shelter.

Many people are so messed up and many incorrigably irresponsible so this program won't work (the flats will immediately turn into repulsively dirty crack houses), but for many it's foundational to be able to sleep and 'be' somewhere that's warm, protected from the elements, where you're not going to be accosted, stolen from.

Just imagine trying to 'get a job' when you live in a tent. Our society is not very capable of handling that. Forget the physical duress of it - it's the psychological aspect. If you are in bum like conditions, surrounded by other bums, crackheads, thieves, it's really hard to fathom yourself as a 'good coffee server'.

Give people a flat with decent neighbours, a community etc and that's the bedrock from which everything else is founded, including their own identity.

All of that said, Finland is not California, and they are light years apart.

I can 100% see it working in Helsinki and not in Cali at all. For one thing, there would be 20 million people lined up for 'free housing' in Cali. They don't have the same kinds of communities to integrate people into, weaker family and cultural structures. Much, much worse violence etc..

But 'housing first' is an important insight to consider because when you think about it it makes sense.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#56

Post by rib3ye »

pessimizer wrote: post #6
sys32768 wrote: post #2

I tried to help a homeless friend who was an alcoholic, but landlords really don't tolerate urinating on the floor, breaking keys off in locks, and not paying bills.

I tried to help a sick cat, but it died. I don't take that as evidence that all sick cats will die, regardless of what we do.

Well, it's a good point of discussion.

"Curing" people with a problem like that is not as simple as putting a roof over their heads. The cat can take a pill, but the alcoholic needs a life redirection, and that takes social infrastructure. If you put yourself on the hook by providing said roof, their problems become yours. At that point, you need to ask yourself if you have the time, energy, patience, and most importantly, compassion.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#57

Post by jasmer »

not_the_fda wrote: post #26

Progressive cities have tried housing first solutions, yet they have a bigger homelessness problem and it keeps getting worse. Cities that have done treatment first policies have seen a reduction homelessness. A great book on this topic is San Fran-sicko. https://www.amazon.com/San-Fransicko-Progressives-Ruin-Citie...

Depends on where you are in the world. Helsinki is nothing like SF, neither are anything like NYC or Lisbon.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#58

Post by vkou »

chimeracoder wrote: post #13
xabotage wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homelessness doesn't exactly sound "solved" in Utah... https://www.sltrib.com/news/2022/12/22/this-year-least-159-h...

> Homelessness doesn't exactly sound "solved" in Utah... In ten years, incidence of chronic homelessness in Utah went from 1,932 to 178. Solving 91% of homelessness is a fantastic achievement, even if the remaining 9% needs further work.

They didn't solve it by 90%, they lied with statistics, and compared exponential-growth forecasted counts with point-in time counts.

The reduction was closer to 60%, and in the past few years, they've stopped investing in the program. It's been a good thing, but without ongoing effort and investment it will regress back to the mean.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#59

Post by dragonwriter »

trynewideas wrote: post #29

Portland, cited in the article, announced it's beginning yet another sweep of homeless encampments yesterday. At the press conference announcing it, the mayor - who's been ordering sweeps his entire tenure - admits they don't and haven't ever helped the people being swept. He's also still pushing his plan to establish city-run outdoor camps for homeless people, and to criminalize rejecting those city-run camps when s…

So, Portland is establishing camps into which it will forcibly concentrate its undesirable population?

What could go wrong?

(Maybe they can decorate the entrance with an ode to the liberating power of work, too.)

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