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We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

newscientist.com

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Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#11

Post by epicureanideal »

pessimizer wrote: post #9
epicureanideal wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guarantee I could produce a program that would be acceptable to conservatives and provide free housing. Note also that Utah, a very conservative state, solves homelessness in exactly this way. It just might be that the housing would not be provided by funneling huge amounts of tax dollars to the rentier class, and might involve constructing more houses, and therefore would be opposed by the left.

Socialism becomes a lot more palatable to majority populations as long as minority populations are kept to a minimum. With a reasonable expectation that the recipients of help look like you, helping starts to seem more like an obligation than an imposition.

The loss of the distinction between the deserving poor and the undeserving poor also caused many people who would’ve supported help to one of those to just throw their hands in the air and forget the whole thing.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#12

Post by enkid »

epicureanideal wrote: post #5
chizhik-pyzhik wrote: post #3

This article is a good overview of the research about treatment-first vs housing-first approaches. The last paragraph is pretty clear on the real difficulty: >The major obstacles to resolving homelessness remain ideological. It is politically hard to sell the idea that people who take drugs or are disruptive should get free housing – even when the evidence shows that is actually what works.

I guarantee I could produce a program that would be acceptable to conservatives and provide free housing. Note also that Utah, a very conservative state, solves homelessness in exactly this way. It just might be that the housing would not be provided by funneling huge amounts of tax dollars to the rentier class, and might involve constructing more houses, and therefore would be opposed by the left.

I'm so confused by this comment. Are you suggesting the left is against public housing and pro landlord?

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#13

Post by chimeracoder »

xabotage wrote: post #10
epicureanideal wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guarantee I could produce a program that would be acceptable to conservatives and provide free housing. Note also that Utah, a very conservative state, solves homelessness in exactly this way. It just might be that the housing would not be provided by funneling huge amounts of tax dollars to the rentier class, and might involve constructing more houses, and therefore would be opposed by the left.

Homelessness doesn't exactly sound "solved" in Utah... https://www.sltrib.com/news/2022/12/22/this-year-least-159-h...

> Homelessness doesn't exactly sound "solved" in Utah...

In ten years, incidence of chronic homelessness in Utah went from 1,932 to 178.

Solving 91% of homelessness is a fantastic achievement, even if the remaining 9% needs further work.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#14

Post by epicureanideal »

enkid wrote: post #12
epicureanideal wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guarantee I could produce a program that would be acceptable to conservatives and provide free housing. Note also that Utah, a very conservative state, solves homelessness in exactly this way. It just might be that the housing would not be provided by funneling huge amounts of tax dollars to the rentier class, and might involve constructing more houses, and therefore would be opposed by the left.

I'm so confused by this comment. Are you suggesting the left is against public housing and pro landlord?

Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying. More precisely, they’re for public housing only if they can capture a lot of the funds to enrich themselves and their supporters and friends.

See also the book “SanFranSicko” by Michael Schellenberger.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#15

Post by superorganism »

epicureanideal wrote: post #5
chizhik-pyzhik wrote: post #3

This article is a good overview of the research about treatment-first vs housing-first approaches. The last paragraph is pretty clear on the real difficulty: >The major obstacles to resolving homelessness remain ideological. It is politically hard to sell the idea that people who take drugs or are disruptive should get free housing – even when the evidence shows that is actually what works.

I guarantee I could produce a program that would be acceptable to conservatives and provide free housing. Note also that Utah, a very conservative state, solves homelessness in exactly this way. It just might be that the housing would not be provided by funneling huge amounts of tax dollars to the rentier class, and might involve constructing more houses, and therefore would be opposed by the left.

If you guarantee you could do this, then do it? Plenty of states the left has no actual say in governance (MS, AL, SC, FL, TX) right now- perfect time to prove it.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#16

Post by superorganism »

epicureanideal wrote: post #11
pessimizer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialism becomes a lot more palatable to majority populations as long as minority populations are kept to a minimum. With a reasonable expectation that the recipients of help look like you, helping starts to seem more like an obligation than an imposition.

The loss of the distinction between the deserving poor and the undeserving poor also caused many people who would’ve supported help to one of those to just throw their hands in the air and forget the whole thing.

Well don't leave us hanging, how do you make the distinction?

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#17

Post by lupire »

epicureanideal wrote: post #14
enkid wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so confused by this comment. Are you suggesting the left is against public housing and pro landlord?

Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying. More precisely, they’re for public housing only if they can capture a lot of the funds to enrich themselves and their supporters and friends. See also the book “SanFranSicko” by Michael Schellenberger.

"the left" has a lot of people in it.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#18

Post by pessimizer »

epicureanideal wrote: post #11
pessimizer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialism becomes a lot more palatable to majority populations as long as minority populations are kept to a minimum. With a reasonable expectation that the recipients of help look like you, helping starts to seem more like an obligation than an imposition.

The loss of the distinction between the deserving poor and the undeserving poor also caused many people who would’ve supported help to one of those to just throw their hands in the air and forget the whole thing.

That's what I'm talking about. The ability to hold back aid from the "undeserving" becomes a lot less important to people who live in relative homogeneity racially and culturally. Absolutely no surprise to me that Utah is relatively socialist internally while being on the extreme right externally.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#19

Post by enkid »

epicureanideal wrote: post #14
enkid wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so confused by this comment. Are you suggesting the left is against public housing and pro landlord?

Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying. More precisely, they’re for public housing only if they can capture a lot of the funds to enrich themselves and their supporters and friends. See also the book “SanFranSicko” by Michael Schellenberger.

Don't confuse "democrats" and "the left". The left has historically come to power by seeking land reform and has a history of redistributing their land, at times violently. Think the Soviet Union, the PRC, or looking further back, the Paris Commune, the extreme strands of the French Revolution, etc. Democrats, despite the rhetoric from some circles, is a firmly conservative party that most people who would self identify as leftists would disagree with a lot of their economic policy as implemented by Obama, Clinton, and Biden.

Re: We can reduce homelessness if we follow the science on what works

#20

Post by dr_stanpuy »

epicureanideal wrote: post #14
enkid wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so confused by this comment. Are you suggesting the left is against public housing and pro landlord?

Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying. More precisely, they’re for public housing only if they can capture a lot of the funds to enrich themselves and their supporters and friends. See also the book “SanFranSicko” by Michael Schellenberger.

That... sounds like political propaganda. What is with so many comments the past few months trying to pin societal issues on the left/California/woke bogeyman?
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