High-Earning Men Are Cutting Back on Their Working Hours • Hacker News Board

Re: High-Earning Men Are Cutting Back on Their Working Hours

#121

Post by greatpostman » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 3:48 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #92

greatpostman wrote: post #21

Controversial opinion: Men are concluding that women don’t care about money as much as they used to, and having an amazing career to snag a great woman is no longer the best (or even a good) strategy. In some ways, being a dedicated corporate employee makes you unattractive as a person. I know a lot of guys in their late 20s that think this. And I know a lot of broke bar tenders dating great women. Unless you are mak…

> Men are concluding that women don’t care about money as much as they used to, and having an amazing career to snag a great woman is no longer the best (or even a good) strategy I disagree. It’s not that women don’t care about money as much as they used to. They actually still care! It’s that other factors are more important now than they used to be. Your looks is very important because women aren’t gonna die withou…

I don’t think this is true. I’ve seen a lot of investment bankers in nyc struggling with women

Re: High-Earning Men Are Cutting Back on Their Working Hours

#122

Post by alistairSH » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 3:48 PM UTC

greatpostman wrote: post #21

Controversial opinion: Men are concluding that women don’t care about money as much as they used to, and having an amazing career to snag a great woman is no longer the best (or even a good) strategy. In some ways, being a dedicated corporate employee makes you unattractive as a person. I know a lot of guys in their late 20s that think this. And I know a lot of broke bar tenders dating great women. Unless you are mak…

I’d posit that women still care about money. But, they don’t need a man’s income to support themselves. They are generating their own income. And parallel/related, the social pressure to marry and settle down is less than ever.

Re: High-Earning Men Are Cutting Back on Their Working Hours

#123

Post by wolongong942 » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 3:48 PM UTC

greatpostman wrote: post #21

Controversial opinion: Men are concluding that women don’t care about money as much as they used to, and having an amazing career to snag a great woman is no longer the best (or even a good) strategy. In some ways, being a dedicated corporate employee makes you unattractive as a person. I know a lot of guys in their late 20s that think this. And I know a lot of broke bar tenders dating great women. Unless you are mak…

> Men are concluding that women don’t care about money as much as they used to

Is there evidence to suggest women lining up to date forklift drivers?

Re: High-Earning Men Are Cutting Back on Their Working Hours

#124

Post by sandworm101 » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 3:48 PM UTC

ren_engineer wrote: post #43

mrandish wrote: post #8

> "High-earning men in the 25-to-39 age range who could be described as “workaholics” were pulling back, often by choice" This seems like great news. I know several guys who've recently opted to earn less in exchange for more time off at home with their young kids. They are happier and the kids love it.

the last sentence of the article hints at the real reason it was written in the first place: >But as staff cut back their hours, it costs medical organizations money it's just companies screeching that they are making less money because salaried employees are doing less unpaid work. I think the pandemic had a large effect on people in terms of 1. Having to face potential mortality much earlier than expected and thus…

>> it's just companies screeching that they are making less money because salaried employees are doing less unpaid work.

That depends on how many of these jobs are positional and therefore cannot be easily supplemented. In my kneck of the woods we are having an issue with judges. There are only so many jobs for judges. But in recent years more than half of them switched to reduced hours. That lost time cannot be just replaced with a part-timer. This is probably true for many senior doctors too. Not every profession has a substitute pool of qualified people to step in every time a senior person decides to not work Fridays.

Re: High-Earning Men Are Cutting Back on Their Working Hours

#125

Post by zozbot234 » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 3:49 PM UTC

dqpb wrote: post #104

shadowgovt wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly. The work attire for technical professionals shifted from suits and ties to jeans and t-shirts because the power shifted from Wall Streeters to Silicon Valley hippies as the value added to the economy by computers grew. This smells like another work-cultural element that could shift easily if several startup-types declare four-day work weeks and find themselves enough runway money to get to revenue-positive.…

Arguably, suit and ties aren't clothes, they're costumes. They were bound to phase out eventually.

There's something to be said for wearing suit and tie. It's a handy way to look "smartly/fashionably dressed" in a general context, that you have to put literally zero effort in thinking about. It's also, to some extent, an overt signal that you're committing to being professional and considerate of others - an often dismissed 'bourgeois' norm that's nevertheless a building block of society, if perhaps one that most people like to take for granted.

Re: High-Earning Men Are Cutting Back on Their Working Hours

#126

Post by lumost » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 3:49 PM UTC

ren_engineer wrote: post #43

mrandish wrote: post #8

> "High-earning men in the 25-to-39 age range who could be described as “workaholics” were pulling back, often by choice" This seems like great news. I know several guys who've recently opted to earn less in exchange for more time off at home with their young kids. They are happier and the kids love it.

the last sentence of the article hints at the real reason it was written in the first place: >But as staff cut back their hours, it costs medical organizations money it's just companies screeching that they are making less money because salaried employees are doing less unpaid work. I think the pandemic had a large effect on people in terms of 1. Having to face potential mortality much earlier than expected and thus…

Companies have had numerous ways of tweaking engagement for office workers which are no longer effective. These tweaks ranged from mildly positive too awful. I suspect that people who were at firms using these tweaks are starting to simply find their own balance based on what they can/want to deliver relative to peers.

- Have team events/other activities which encourage the team to stay late at the office for social reasons.

- Off-sites where everyone is in the same place for 3-5 days.

- Stop by peoples desks and check on what they are working on.

- Walk around and see who has an editor open, ping people who don't for progress reports.

- Check if employees are actually putting in 8+ hours per day. Assign more work to those who seem to be leaving early.

In the remote world you really can't tell how many hours people are putting in. Some engineers do 12 hour days.. some do 4 hours. Some do 12 hours but get nothing done.

Re: High-Earning Men Are Cutting Back on Their Working Hours

#127

Post by nixgeek » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 3:49 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #75

xyzelement wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearsighted view that's probably not common among those raised with a long term values perspective. Being a broke bartender is maybe cute in your 20s and maybe they are enjoying the "great women" they are dating. The problem is - once you hit 30 and beyond, being a broke bartender ain't that cute, and the kind of women stuck dating them aren't that *great" either. And there's no easy leap from a broke bartender in yo…

I’d also argue that for young men - unless you’re an absolute unit and breathtakingly handsome… you’re always going to need to make more than your partner for a long term relationship. Being a bartender or taking a lower wage job is a surefire way to only being able to sleep around. I’ve only met a few women who earn more than their spouse and can actually only think of one off the top of my head. Every other couple…

This in itself is a huge problem and addressing it requires some combination of: (i) regulation backed up with investigations and significant fines for violation; (ii) transparency into pay equity; (iii) corporate action, optimally because it’s the right thing, but pessimistically because you can’t ignore the prior two points.

Re: High-Earning Men Are Cutting Back on Their Working Hours

#128

Post by bigcloud1299 » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 3:50 PM UTC

throwaway5959 wrote: post #14

bigcloud1299 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. I used to work 60+ hours to make a huge impact on my firm and our revenue. Now I am like fuck it. Down to 30.

What would you say are some of the positives and negatives that have come about from this change?

Positives - more time with family. We could finally have second child after 7 years of not being able to due to being so busy could even think about it. Domestic / marriage life is much better.

Reduced drinking and late night outings.

Less stress. Focused high priority work Now instead of needing to play politics i many fronts to form alliances to move up.

Time to think retirement and plan for it.

More reading and entertainment. Focused on kids education.

Picked up trading with good returns.

Actually watched sports first time in 10 years.

Re: High-Earning Men Are Cutting Back on Their Working Hours

#129

Post by lumost » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 3:50 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #124

ren_engineer wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the last sentence of the article hints at the real reason it was written in the first place: >But as staff cut back their hours, it costs medical organizations money it's just companies screeching that they are making less money because salaried employees are doing less unpaid work. I think the pandemic had a large effect on people in terms of 1. Having to face potential mortality much earlier than expected and thus…

>> it's just companies screeching that they are making less money because salaried employees are doing less unpaid work. That depends on how many of these jobs are positional and therefore cannot be easily supplemented. In my kneck of the woods we are having an issue with judges. There are only so many jobs for judges. But in recent years more than half of them switched to reduced hours. That lost time cannot be just…

> But more than half of them have switched to reduced hours.

Why are they switching to reduced hours? This sounds like the value/output equation is out of line. Why not pay more, or hire more judges to reduce the workload?

Re: High-Earning Men Are Cutting Back on Their Working Hours

#130

Post by xyzelement » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 3:51 PM UTC

nixgeek wrote: post #127

bradlys wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d also argue that for young men - unless you’re an absolute unit and breathtakingly handsome… you’re always going to need to make more than your partner for a long term relationship. Being a bartender or taking a lower wage job is a surefire way to only being able to sleep around. I’ve only met a few women who earn more than their spouse and can actually only think of one off the top of my head. Every other couple…

This in itself is a huge problem and addressing it requires some combination of: (i) regulation backed up with investigations and significant fines for violation; (ii) transparency into pay equity; (iii) corporate action, optimally because it’s the right thing, but pessimistically because you can’t ignore the prior two points.

Why is it a huge problem?