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The ER has become a sanctuary for society’s unmet needs

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Re: The ER has become a sanctuary for society’s unmet needs

#111
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget Wall Street! I guess that's the jobs program for the upper class. Honestly after many decades of technological growth, extreme offshoring, and the workforce nearly doubling due to women entering it, I'd estimate that 80% of positions are bullshit jobs.

Have you noticed how your light switches still work and your toilet still flushes? Yeah? Turns out there are real jobs. Being a doctor is a real job too. It's a huge commitment and they deserve to be well compensated. But of course they're not, it's the administrators capturing all the economic rents.

Yeah, I left 20% there for a reason.

Doctors do accomplish real work, but I'd say most of their time is wasted - dealing with paperwork and financialization slicing most of their time up into useless 15 minute chunks.

Speaking of the trades though, it's a plain illustration of the dynamic. Simple jobs end up with massive bills these days, and you know the guy doing the actual work isn't seeing much of it. Rather that money is going to the administrators that have congregated around his work - scheduler, billing, manager, owners, insurances, etc etc. So even for a straightforward concrete real-world physical job, there is still a huge amount of overhead!

Re: The ER has become a sanctuary for society’s unmet needs

#112

This bugs me every time I read about free clinics and/or ER costs. It seems most Americans with limited or no healthcare is: 1. Go to the ER and pay $X000 2. Wait in line at a free clinic for 9+ hours and maybe/maybe not see a doctor This seems like a gigantic need for a middle ground to be filled. I know that CVS and WalMart have done things like the $60 Physician's Assistant visit at retail locations but that alway…

My impressions seems to be it's the combination of the 2

(1) people in the US will balk at paying others' healthcare if you ask them directly, so it "has to" be subsidized in a roundabout, inefficient way. ER is obliged to treat you regardless of money (and people do go there with routine concerns from my limited experience), but someone has to pay, so other patients get charged extra. That is really annoying in a way, and it's pure politics - nobody can come out and say "hey, you are paying for the poor anyway, so why don't we at least cut out all the middlemen - private and public, and just pay them openly"?.

(2) But the main one I think is that public option is basically impossible as long as you allow a viable private option, because everyone will take private option if they can and public option will get the worst-off, health-wise and financially, and as it gets worse as a result more people will bail, etc. You can look at schools as an example - private school parents literally pay double price, public system is easy to abuse via de-facto neighborhood class-based segregation, and private schools STILL thrive because private option is just THAT MUCH BETTER (in the consumers' opinion, at least).

If you really consider the implications of the 2, you can understand also how regulation drives up cost in another way than its actual overhead and supply-limiting effects - it regulates options out of existence. If I could go to a "private semi-ER" where they (1) get a good doctor, pay him double, but are let's say (2) not obliged to treat before payment and do not take Medicare, or maybe any insurance, (3) aim for 20-80 principle as far as equipment is concerned (i.e. somewhere in between ER and Urgent Cares), it would be the obvious, better, and cheaper choice. I'm pretty sure an "uber for Urgent Care" based on this would make bank AND benefit tons of people. Of course, it's regulated out of existence. Or consider a startup that would offer "Indian/Russian/Turkish/..." quality facilities, with an obvious price trade-off - it's impossible, because if it were possible the existing public-private frankenstein would simply die. You can see the same with schools, with activists constantly trying to stifle school choice, because with viable school choice public schools will simply die.

As a result, the system is both terribly inefficient and creates the worst incentives. Take me as an example. If I decide to retire early, I'd be helped greatly by ACA, and would optimize paper income and (ab)use it to the max. I do feel like it's justified because I am paying for it now in taxes; but I didn't do the math, so mostly it's just bad incentives + it was the govt who screwed up healthcare in the first place. So hey, ACA is good for me. If they had universal healthcare I'd stop working even earlier. But is that good for society?

To be clear, I support a fully free market option for both healthcare and schools, and the only redistribution allowed should be cash, and catastrophic insurance limiting total spend.

Re: The ER has become a sanctuary for society’s unmet needs

#113
post #19

When you don't spend the time and money on preventative care as a society, you end up spending much, much more on emergency care. I feel like this has been quantitatively demonstrated again and again, but it's somehow still a political football.

This mentality applies not just to health care but all sorts of infrastructure. There's money to build it but never money to maintain it.

Yep. Housing is the big one. And transit.

Re: The ER has become a sanctuary for society’s unmet needs

#114

For millennium churches did this for free. Many of the good ones still will give the person a meal and someone to listen to in addition to wise counsel. In a word people need Jesus.

It's unfortunate that your comment is buried because it's actually on-topic, as opposed to all the complaints about ERs and urgent care centers. Churches would traditionally be a place to take children in crisis (as in TFA), not emergency rooms.

It is a common theme for a comment to be buried if I mention church. Even when it is on-topic.
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