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Wizards of the Coast Releases SRD Under Creative Commons License (CC-BY-4.0)

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Re: Wizards of the Coast Releases SRD Under Creative Commons License (CC-BY-4.0)

#61

Post by Macha »

TillE wrote: post #55
pubby wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how was the communities' desire not implicitly understood? IMO it's common for people at the top of a hierarchy to be out of touch with those on the bottom. It takes dedication to stay in touch, but even with effort a bigwig can't experience the community exactly as a peon does. Usually, they have to do market research (like this poll) to find out what people really think. I'm not saying this as a defense or anythi…

Given the extremely fast and extremely comprehensive U-turn, it seems like a lot of people near the top did understand the community very well. Somehow, one person or one small faction made a different decision, and the overwhelming feedback proved it was the wrong decision.

Well, there were two attempts at more minor climbdowns before this capitulation, so it seems more likely that the immediate financial impact from mass unsubscriptions was a motivating factor than prior understanding from the execs who were largely pushing this strategy if leaks are to be believed.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Releases SRD Under Creative Commons License (CC-BY-4.0)

#62

Post by rsstack »

Macha wrote: post #52
tptacek wrote: post #40

So this is a clean, complete win, right? Once the license controversy started, there was no reasonable ask beyond this outcome?

I'd say this is 99% of a win. The one thing it does still leave is the claim they can de-authorize 1.0a at will later. For active products this is not a problem, as CC BY is a strictly more permissive license and they just move to claiming they're using the CC license. However, for second-order derivatives there is still one problem. 1. Third Party A uses OGL 1.0a content from Wizards, licenses its own work as OGL 1.…

Note that the license is CC-BY-4.0, not -SA. Doesn't change anything material in what you wrote, just FYI.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Releases SRD Under Creative Commons License (CC-BY-4.0)

#63

Post by boomboomsubban »

vaylian wrote: post #48

A bit more context: * Wizards of the Coast (WoTC) has been tasked by Hasbro (which owns WoTC) to drastically increase profits over a few years. * WoTC has been aggressively increasing prices on Magic the Gathering (MTG) and drastically increased the diversity of products. This overwhelmed even people who follow and produce MTG news. Wallet fatique is rampant and people are disgruntled. * WoTC releases the 30th aniver…

>WoTC releases the 30th aniversary edition for MTG, which is 60 random cards for 1000 $ which are officially marked as non-tournament legal. The MTG community is furious and for once people from all corners of the community come together to boycott this product. The rage is great and enduring.

Yet somehow the product completely sold out in under an hour. I really don't understand the outrage on that decision, would you prefer that everyone can buy their useless commutative coins?

Re: Wizards of the Coast Releases SRD Under Creative Commons License (CC-BY-4.0)

#64

Post by Macha »

rsstack wrote: post #62
Macha wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say this is 99% of a win. The one thing it does still leave is the claim they can de-authorize 1.0a at will later. For active products this is not a problem, as CC BY is a strictly more permissive license and they just move to claiming they're using the CC license. However, for second-order derivatives there is still one problem. 1. Third Party A uses OGL 1.0a content from Wizards, licenses its own work as OGL 1.…

Note that the license is CC-BY-4.0, not -SA. Doesn't change anything material in what you wrote, just FYI.

Thanks, luckily the edit window is still open so I fixed my post

Re: Wizards of the Coast Releases SRD Under Creative Commons License (CC-BY-4.0)

#66

Post by roenxi »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #63
vaylian wrote: post #48

A bit more context: * Wizards of the Coast (WoTC) has been tasked by Hasbro (which owns WoTC) to drastically increase profits over a few years. * WoTC has been aggressively increasing prices on Magic the Gathering (MTG) and drastically increased the diversity of products. This overwhelmed even people who follow and produce MTG news. Wallet fatique is rampant and people are disgruntled. * WoTC releases the 30th aniver…

>WoTC releases the 30th aniversary edition for MTG, which is 60 random cards for 1000 $ which are officially marked as non-tournament legal. The MTG community is furious and for once people from all corners of the community come together to boycott this product. The rage is great and enduring. Yet somehow the product completely sold out in under an hour. I really don't understand the outrage on that decision, would y…

Also - why are people upset over a product (that doesn't affect the game) being sold to people others? I feel like important context is missing here over why anyone would be upset by this.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Releases SRD Under Creative Commons License (CC-BY-4.0)

#67

Post by gspetr »

voakbasda wrote: post #28
SeanAnderson wrote: post #6

The community WOTC built over decades shouldn't have to give feedback that 85%+ identify with in order to achieve results that are desirable. If community sentiment is so lopsided then what was the rationale to make the decision in the first place and how was the communities' desire not implicitly understood? There is no doubt in my mind that WOTC (let's be real, Hasbro) has enough self-awareness to have realized the…

Yup, trust once broken cannot be rebuilt easily. Too many companies make these kinds of bad PR moves, backtrack temporarily, and then quietly deploy their plans after the initial furor dies down. I wager that the winds here will shift back to blow against their customers soon enough. Want us to believe otherwise? An apology would only be the start; they need to swallow a legally enforceable poison pill that prevents…

>legally enforceable poison pill

This seems somewhat unlikely IMO. WotC is a subsidiary of Hasbro, a publicly traded company.

Measures that can be potentially interpreted as restrictive on shareholders' profits seem quite difficult to pass.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Releases SRD Under Creative Commons License (CC-BY-4.0)

#68

Post by armitron »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #63
vaylian wrote: post #48

A bit more context: * Wizards of the Coast (WoTC) has been tasked by Hasbro (which owns WoTC) to drastically increase profits over a few years. * WoTC has been aggressively increasing prices on Magic the Gathering (MTG) and drastically increased the diversity of products. This overwhelmed even people who follow and produce MTG news. Wallet fatique is rampant and people are disgruntled. * WoTC releases the 30th aniver…

>WoTC releases the 30th aniversary edition for MTG, which is 60 random cards for 1000 $ which are officially marked as non-tournament legal. The MTG community is furious and for once people from all corners of the community come together to boycott this product. The rage is great and enduring. Yet somehow the product completely sold out in under an hour. I really don't understand the outrage on that decision, would y…

WoTC says it sold out, there's no actual proof of that (in fact, some insiders are saying that it was taken off the market due to the bad publicity)

Re: Wizards of the Coast Releases SRD Under Creative Commons License (CC-BY-4.0)

#69

Post by gspetr »

michaelcampbell wrote: post #43
SeanAnderson wrote: post #6

The community WOTC built over decades shouldn't have to give feedback that 85%+ identify with in order to achieve results that are desirable. If community sentiment is so lopsided then what was the rationale to make the decision in the first place and how was the communities' desire not implicitly understood? There is no doubt in my mind that WOTC (let's be real, Hasbro) has enough self-awareness to have realized the…

> has enough self-awareness to have realized they were encroaching significantly on their core demographic. At least where I am in the US, the behavior of many corporations seems to indicate they... just don't give a shit. People will take what they can get, by and large, and as long as it makes the corporation money, they're willing to risk it. Who actually _likes_ not having a single register open at Wal Mart, Home…

>At least where I am in the US

I am somewhat perplexed by that statement.

Are you implying that there are major jurisdictions in the US where WotC wouldn't have been able to fully enforce compliance with their (originally) overly restrictive license?

Re: Wizards of the Coast Releases SRD Under Creative Commons License (CC-BY-4.0)

#70

Post by karaterobot »

wardedVibe wrote: post #18
lincolnq wrote: post #7

Can someone explain more about what happened here?

Wizards tried to change their license so that all third party material (books, virtual table tops, anything using the srd) was treated the way videogame mods are, and charge 30% of revenue (this was ogl 1.1). Players unsubscribed from the subscription based en mass, and their largest competitor (paizo, who owns pathfinder, and came about because of the last time they tried this) created an equivalent of the Linux fou…

Paizo basically exists to take advantage of bad moves made by WoTC. The cancellation of their license to print Dungeon and Dragon magazines being the inciting event for the company to release its own product, and the disaster that was 4th edition being the rocket fuel that launched it. Pathfinder, a derivative product, was more popular than its parent for a couple years!
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