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Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

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Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#781

Post by Manuel_D »

apeace wrote: post #763
Manuel_D wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I shared a source making this claim. You don't think it's a good source, which is a totally valid position, but you've not shared any evidence for this assertion. It'd be good to follow your own advice and back up your own claims with evidence, or dial back your claims about the blog. I'm really baffled why someone who called a piece of writing "horrible guided and confused" with nothing to back that claim up is in a…

As I said, I'd be happy to continue a respectful debate over email. Please engage me in that way, so that we can help each other and understand each other. This web site is not the right venue to continue this debate ad nauseam. I would like to respond to many of the things that you have said, but it doesn't make sense for us to do it on HN. If you really feel strongly about keeping the discourse public, you can alwa…

Or we can skip this and just post the messages straight to HN - if you're fine with the submitting emails to HN then this is just and efficiency gain by skipping one layer of indirection.

So back to where we left off: I shared a blob post by a psychiatrist, which you disagreed with and called "horribly misguided and confused" yet neglected to explain any particular explanation why. Furthermore, you insisted that I post additional sources to back up the article I shared, yet you've shared none to support your criticisms. Do you think this is an effective way to argue your point?

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#782

Post by dheera »

astrange wrote: post #675
dheera wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> her inbox would be flooded with messages Yeah this is a unstable feedback loop. Women want men to message first. So they don't message first. So a lot of men spray all the women with generic messages first (because spending even any amount of effort on a single woman is most likely going to get ignored, so men just assume 1 in 100 people respond and don't put much effort until there is at least one response from he…

That's how Bumble works. I don't need to use dating apps but a few coworkers tell me it works for them.

Except for a lot of people Bumble often just doesn't show your profile to anyone you swiped right on. Might be if you don't meet conventional attractiveness thresholds. It's a waste of time if you're not some DiCaprio. I get enough matches on other apps with the same profile that it's pretty clear there's something fishy going on in their algorithm.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#783

Post by pmarreck »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #289
wonderwonder wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% this. How many acts of violence by lonely men would be avoided if they had just had the opportunity to go out, drop $150 and have sex. Especially sex that catered to whatever fetish they happened to indulge in. I have no scientific numbers to back this but I am willing to be the answer is "a lot". I feel like if an isolated, angry virgin was able to have sex in a non judgmental environment they would lose their…

And I don't see how there's anything to back up this assumption. It seems to me more likely that men expressing misogyny online would also express it in person. Sex workers may individually choose to tolerate that or may not, but either way this opportunity exists now and this problem still persists.

> And I don't see how there's anything to back up this assumption

I present to you, some pretty good data: the time Rhode Island "accidentally" legalized prostitution for a number of years, and then made it illegal again, and the correlations to public health that seemed to result from this:

https://whyy.org/articles/prostitution-decriminalized-rhode-...

Scroll down to the section "Researchers take notice" if you are low on time.

They used surrounding states as a control. They tried hard to account for the consequences, but that pesky 40% drop in gonorrhea and 30% drop in rapes (!) just wouldn't go away (and also doesn't fit the feminist narrative that rape is "only about power")

There's also no convincing evidence (just cherrypicked data that is either pro- or con-) that legalizing prostitution results in more sex trafficking.

> Sex workers may individually choose to tolerate that or may not

Funny thing about you saying that, they can't choose anything if it's illegal- if it's legal, they can not only choose, they can bring legal charges against anyone who mistreats them.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#784

Post by pmarreck »

lechacker wrote: post #517

As a 30+ year old kissless virgin I have recently began noticing that the loneliness part has began affecting me more deeply than usual. I suppose noticing the first signs of aging in my face led to the realization of all things not-done. I've had a couple of episodes of despair in the past few months because of this. Unfortunately people like me become helpless. You'll be alone because you _are_ alone: you don't hav…

Did you cover all the biological bases, get your hormones checked, etc.?

I was a "late bloomer" growing up; turns out I had low T, which is something my doctor-averse parents would have never had treated anyway.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#785

Post by pmarreck »

wonderwonder wrote: post #109
f-securus wrote: post #5

Legalize prostitution and regulate safety and perhaps incels would build confidence and learn to socialize a bit from paid sexual interactions? I'm kind of ignorant to the subject of what is the cause of 'sexual loneliness' but I believe the world's oldest profession shouldn't be pushed into the shadows as that causes more problems than it prevents.

100% this. How many acts of violence by lonely men would be avoided if they had just had the opportunity to go out, drop $150 and have sex. Especially sex that catered to whatever fetish they happened to indulge in. I have no scientific numbers to back this but I am willing to be the answer is "a lot". I feel like if an isolated, angry virgin was able to have sex in a non judgmental environment they would lose their…

Here are your numbers:

The time Rhode Island "accidentally" legalized prostitution for a number of years, and then made it illegal again, and the correlations to public health that seemed to result from this:

https://whyy.org/articles/prostitution-decriminalized-rhode-...

Scroll down to the section "Researchers take notice" if you are low on time.

They used surrounding states as a control. They tried hard to account for the consequences, but that pesky 40% drop in gonorrhea and 30% drop in rapes (!) just wouldn't go away (and also doesn't fit the feminist narrative that rape is "only about power")

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#786

Post by pmarreck »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #323
wonderwonder wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% this. How many acts of violence by lonely men would be avoided if they had just had the opportunity to go out, drop $150 and have sex. Especially sex that catered to whatever fetish they happened to indulge in. I have no scientific numbers to back this but I am willing to be the answer is "a lot". I feel like if an isolated, angry virgin was able to have sex in a non judgmental environment they would lose their…

> How many acts of violence by lonely men would be avoided if they had just had the opportunity to Zero. It's not about the sex. It's about value and self-worth. It's about being selected. It's about being chosen by the person who could have chosen anyone. When people are rejected by other human beings, they are literally being told they are worthless. Wouldn't you turn violent if you were told you were worthless you…

False. Sometimes, it IS "just about the sex."

Here we go: The time Rhode Island "accidentally" legalized prostitution for a number of years, and then made it illegal again, and the correlations to public health that seemed to result from this:

https://whyy.org/articles/prostitution-decriminalized-rhode-...

Scroll down to the section "Researchers take notice" if you are low on time.

They used surrounding states as a control. They tried hard to account for the consequences, but that pesky 40% drop in gonorrhea and 30% drop in rapes (!) just wouldn't go away (and also doesn't fit the feminist narrative that rape is "only about power", i.e., it IS "about sex", at least sometimes)

Sometimes, you don't need "genuine human acceptance." Sometimes, the only thing that will clear your head is that you just need to fuck. At least for some portion of men (and possibly, just to be inclusive here, women).

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#787

Post by bmn__ »

majikaja wrote: post #779
bmn__ wrote: post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a problem in reality. Men will gladly settle for what they can get.

I think men's obsession about this topic needs to be treated in the same way drug addiction is. Flood the market with supply then complain about surplus? It's like watching a dog chase its own tail.

I can't remember having seen someone compare a basic human need (level 2 on the Maslow hierarchy) with drug addiction. What's next, addiction to nutrients and oxygen? Your thought is baffling to me, bordering on absurd.

Also, the implication that the men who complain about surplus are responsible for flooding the market with supply is plain wrong. Literally no man chose to be born into this world.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#788

Post by giantg2 »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #762
giantg2 wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't override prenups. They can invalidate prenups, or portions of the prenup for specific reasons. I couldn't find the stats that you mentioned. I would guess that number included specific provisions that were invalidates, such as custody arrangements, which are outside the scope of a prenup.

Look up "Second Look Doctrine"

Yeah, again, they can invalidate portions of the prenup for specific reasons. In the case of second look, that reason would be if the terms are considered unreasonable at the time of divorce. So it is fairly open ended due to "reasonable" being subjective based on the judge (or master) that you get. But the use of this doctrine is supposed to be pretty limited and should only be applied if the terms were egregiously lopsided or a significant life event occurred (disabled spouse).

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#789

Post by astrange »

bmn__ wrote: post #766
astrange wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is genetically determined. The environment happens to you after your genes do. (For instance, it's easy to "change" if you're a burn victim. If you're going to be scientific, be specific.)

> The environment happens to you after your genes do. So what? This correction changes nothing, the discussion is about control. A man who wants to improve his attractiveness in terms of body height, skin colour or sensitivity of the scalp against 5α-DHT expressing follicle miniaturisation can't achieve shit by changing his environment.

Sure, but then say "it's too late to change it". Which I agree with! But being overly pop-scientific leads to, you know, eugenics.

If your hair is thinning that's less of a problem than you think. It looks bad if you look like you're intentionally ignoring it, but lean into it and you're fine.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#790

Post by majikaja »

bmn__ wrote: post #787
majikaja wrote: post #779

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think men's obsession about this topic needs to be treated in the same way drug addiction is. Flood the market with supply then complain about surplus? It's like watching a dog chase its own tail.

I can't remember having seen someone compare a basic human need (level 2 on the Maslow hierarchy) with drug addiction. What's next, addiction to nutrients and oxygen? Your thought is baffling to me, bordering on absurd. Also, the implication that the men who complain about surplus are responsible for flooding the market with supply is plain wrong. Literally no man chose to be born into this world.

Hookups are not a need. Male users are the overwhelming majority of these apps. If not age limitations on female attractiveness, then the underlying problem is the intensity of men's compulsions compared to women.
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