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Stanford student may need to ‘acknowledge harm’ for reading ‘Mein Kampf’

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Re: Stanford student may need to ‘acknowledge harm’ for reading ‘Mein Kampf’

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mein Kampf is reportedly and famously an extremely boring book, so if you can laugh at it you can laugh at anything.

I’ve read it. I’m not sure I’d call it boring , as I was making parallels to what actually happened after it was written the entire time, but it’s definitely monotonous. The author was a better artist than writer, and you might remember how that career turned out for him.

>The author was a better artist than writer, and you might remember how that career turned out for him.

And then it turned out that politics became his most successful career. People didn't like his art or writing enough to make a stable career out of those things, but they were more than happy to vote for him and then follow him into a disastrous, brutal war and also build extermination camps for murdering millions.

I think there's a lesson here about what kind of people go into politics, and how bad people are at choosing their leaders.

Re: Stanford student may need to ‘acknowledge harm’ for reading ‘Mein Kampf’

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve read it. I’m not sure I’d call it boring , as I was making parallels to what actually happened after it was written the entire time, but it’s definitely monotonous. The author was a better artist than writer, and you might remember how that career turned out for him.

>The author was a better artist than writer, and you might remember how that career turned out for him. And then it turned out that politics became his most successful career. People didn't like his art or writing enough to make a stable career out of those things, but they were more than happy to vote for him and then follow him into a disastrous, brutal war and also build extermination camps for murdering millions.…

I a bit of a nutter and ran for a local election because nobody sane would run against this truly crazy lady.

Seriously, if your remotely a decent person of any political stripe please consider running for a election. Especially if you don't want to. You'll do a lot of good.

Re: Stanford student may need to ‘acknowledge harm’ for reading ‘Mein Kampf’

#113
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> laughing, clearly in a joking way, not at all in a historical way What should the penalty be for laughing in a non-"historical way"?

The book is a symbol for the immense suffering inflicted by the Nazi regime. I can sympathize with not wanting students brazenly laughing at that in front of a large audience. It’s not a good look - they aren’t representing the university well. That being said, I’m not sure what general rule I would want to set if I was in charge of this policy at a university. It’s certainly a thorny issue.

As a person who had family members who fought the WWII and who suffered from said nazis, may I ask to let people laugh at whatever book they want to? There’s no harm in it whatsoever. Thank you.

Re: Stanford student may need to ‘acknowledge harm’ for reading ‘Mein Kampf’

#114
Tens of millions, possibly more than a hundred million actually were harmed - as in "they lost their lives" - under influence of the writings of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin and Mao, writings dear to the hearts of those who organise these struggle sessions against those who refuse to stay in line.

Let all of this new Red Guard bend down in acknowledgement of the error of their ideology and their ways, let them make penance for their misdeeds and let them ever after be known for what they did, just like those who followed Adolf Hitler were marked: as traitors to humanity.

Yes, new Red Guard, that is what is being formed and with the same means as Mao formed his. He also used students for his purposes, bending them to his will by claiming they would be the guards of the new era, battling against "the four olds" of old ideas, old culture, old customs and old habits.

Historian Frank Dikotter accurately summarises Mao’s logic in instigating the Red Guard and their activities: Mao went straight to the students, seeing in the young his most reliable allies. They were impressionable, easy to manipulate and eager to fight. Most of all, they craved a more active role (Dikotter, 2016).

Students in the modern "west" are just as impressionable and easy to manipulate as they were in Mao's China, maybe even more so. Just like so many pampered young people who have lived lives of luxury and abundance they crave for some meaning, to find a role for themselves in society where they get to stand out from the crowd. Once that role was to be found in climbing up the social ladder, in excelling in some field of study or in religion. Then a few things happened which lessened the value of those former goals. Some people just kept on climbing that social ladder until they lost sight of the rest of society from their heights, easily making 500 times as much money as the average person or more. They mistakenly took their financial prowess as a sign of wisdom. At the same time the value of religion, once a steadfast rock of society, dwindled through both the ascent of the age of reason but also because of the many scandals in which the large organised religions of the west were involved. Not that those religions are any worse than the other large religions - Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism among others - but the ascent of the age of reason and the freedom of expression and that of the press made it possible for these scandals to see the light of day. With that, religion lost its moral high ground. With the excesses of the capitalist economies which gave rise to the "1%" and now the "0.1%" of billionaires the system which floats all ships also lost some of its appeal, especially now that the cold war was "won" and the "evil empire" in the east was "vanquished". What, then, should a pampered student looking for a role as a shining knight in armour - whether that be a Saint George or Jeanne d'Arc - look for as a role model. What, indeed, better than an ideology which points out all the failings of current society while forgetting that those failings are the local lows in a plain of welfare which is far higher than it has ever been? An ideology which instead points at a mystical peak to be found somewhere at the end of the rainbow, never seen but prophesied by many? Mao clearly understood this and so does the current crop of ideologues. Get them young, bring them in and bind them.

Re: Stanford student may need to ‘acknowledge harm’ for reading ‘Mein Kampf’

#115
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give a concrete example?

here[0] are[1] some[2] examples. [0]: The ACLU Has Lost Its Way: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/aclu-johnn... [1]: Once a Bastion of Free Speech, the A.C.L.U. Faces an Identity Crisis: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html [2]: Requiem for the American Civil Liberties Union: https://www.newsweek.com/requiem-american-civil-liberties-un...

Oh OK, so you want the ACLU to be a right wing org, got it.

Re: Stanford student may need to ‘acknowledge harm’ for reading ‘Mein Kampf’

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve read it. I’m not sure I’d call it boring , as I was making parallels to what actually happened after it was written the entire time, but it’s definitely monotonous. The author was a better artist than writer, and you might remember how that career turned out for him.

>The author was a better artist than writer, and you might remember how that career turned out for him. And then it turned out that politics became his most successful career. People didn't like his art or writing enough to make a stable career out of those things, but they were more than happy to vote for him and then follow him into a disastrous, brutal war and also build extermination camps for murdering millions.…

I choose my leaders based on those who volunteer. To quote Bill Clinton "the best candidate never runs". If the choice is a demagogue or an idiot, which do you choose?

And if you're not happy with these choices, why aren't you running?

Re: Stanford student may need to ‘acknowledge harm’ for reading ‘Mein Kampf’

#117

Heh, I've seen this same mechanic abused twice recently-- once in a workplace violence claim, and another in a sextortion case. Rather than make a false accusation against someone (or any accusation, really) you vaguely allude to how they did something that "triggers a trauma response from [your] past" and gaslight/coerce/shame them into admitting guilt ("acknowledging harm"). That settles all dispute over the integr…

About 20 years ago, but the people who said it got shouted down and gaslit into accepting blame for being violent

This is also why 'gaslight' became a term in popular use.

Re: Stanford student may need to ‘acknowledge harm’ for reading ‘Mein Kampf’

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, similar logic was often used by Communist states to justify their judicial systems. The adversarial justice system of the US was an example of bourgeoisie justice, designed to uphold bourgeoisie capital relations. The Soviet judicial system was thought to be an instance of Proletarian Justice [1]. [1]: Vyshinskii on Proletarian Justice: https://soviethistory.msu.edu/1924-2/socialist-legality/soci...

That's funny. The reality is that restorative justice today has its roots in specific indigenous justice practices. Specifically the Kitchener experiment in Ontario, Canada in the 1970s[1]. More than happy to hear your critique about indigenous justice systems though, since it's more relevant. 1. http://www.brattleborocjc.org/blog/indigenous-roots-of-resto...

I wasn't being glib. I think the observation that liberal courts often favor richer entities is true. The idea that bourgeoisie capital relations need to be suppressed for true justice to occur isn't that hard to believe. The problem when justice systems try to seek some form of restitution based on an unaccountable definition of harm is a consequence. I'm of the opinion that justice requires some form of agreed standard, norms should be left up to discretion as little as possible.

If you're interested in why the idea of harms and complete community based justice can have unintended side effects, I highly recommend reading Rawls (Theory of Justice.) A really fun essay in this vein that I enjoy is Joreen's Tyranny of the Structureless if you're not familiar with it already.

Re: Stanford student may need to ‘acknowledge harm’ for reading ‘Mein Kampf’

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The author was a better artist than writer, and you might remember how that career turned out for him. And then it turned out that politics became his most successful career. People didn't like his art or writing enough to make a stable career out of those things, but they were more than happy to vote for him and then follow him into a disastrous, brutal war and also build extermination camps for murdering millions.…

I choose my leaders based on those who volunteer. To quote Bill Clinton "the best candidate never runs". If the choice is a demagogue or an idiot, which do you choose? And if you're not happy with these choices, why aren't you running?

>And if you're not happy with these choices, why aren't you running?

If I see two ballerinas competing, and I'm not happy with either of them, me becoming a ballerina myself isn't actually a viable alternative.

The idea that anyone could be a good leader is incredibly ridiculous and myopic.

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