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DataDog asked OpenTelemetry contributor to kill pull request

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Re: DataDog asked OpenTelemetry contributor to kill pull request

#81

Post by m-o11y »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #34
ren_engineer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenTelemetry basically allows for vendor neutral instrumentation for your metrics, logs, and traces. It makes it easy to switch to a cheaper or better service with minimal lock-in, which is obviously bad for DataDog and other companies business model

> It makes it easy to switch to a cheaper or better service with minimal lock-in Got any examples? I tried running my own "stack" for a project I wanted alerting on. I landed on Jaeger all-in-one (wasted time on Zipkin, the UI just was nowhere near as good as it ought to be) Docker container in docker-compose with COLLECTOR_OTLP_ENABLED.

If you're looking for something a bit more "few-clicks-and-you-are-up-and-running", check out OpsVerse ObserveNow: https://opsverse.io/observenow-observability/ .. Entirely powered by OSS tools, ingestion-driven pricing, and without the hassle of managing the stack and scaling up.

Re: DataDog asked OpenTelemetry contributor to kill pull request

#82

Post by technimad »

hosh wrote: post #35
judge2020 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This PR would sort of allow data to flow OUT of datadog's libs/agents? Yes. This allows you to expose a Telemetry collector on the datadog agent port 8126[0], allowing you to collect Application Performance Monitoring (APM) traces from any APM-enabled datadog library[1]. If I had to guess, DataDog's argument is that they don't want you using the engineering hours they invest into their libraries to have DD do the h…

When we switched off of AppSignal, since our instrumentation as deeply intertwined with our code, it took a while to change that over to Otel. But at least now, being Otel, theoretically if we want to change it to a different vendor, we can. If we were to change off of DD, and there is an otel collector that can accept DD APM spans, then we can switch now, refactor later. In practice, DD has a lot going for it that I…

Why sample otel spans and miss out on the important ones?

Re: DataDog asked OpenTelemetry contributor to kill pull request

#83

Post by wink »

shyn3 wrote: post #71
slyall wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always tell people looking at Datadog to remember "DDDD" or "DataDog Don't Discount". Compared to most Enterprise vendors it is a lot harder to get a discount from Datadog. Most vendors will give you 1/3 off just for signing a contract and committing to a spend, Datadog is not like that.

Just show them New Relics new pricing

the New Relic who either had a breach they never notified me or sold my email address? I've getting random spam to newrelic@ for years now. Nope, they'll never see any money if I can avoid it.

Re: DataDog asked OpenTelemetry contributor to kill pull request

#84

Post by Hawxy »

aeyes wrote: post #39
hosh wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We use DD, and we have to use Otel for our Elixir apps to ingest spans into DD because there are no DD SDKs for Elixir or Erlang. From the perspective of a customer, I can tell you that DD already has quite a bit of a moat. Their main competitive advantage, and what got us into using it, is being able to correlate data across APM, custom metrics, and logging through the use of tagging. They then densely link data tog…

> negotiated annual contract Maybe we are too small but Datadog is one of the few vendors which we haven't been able to negotiate down in years. The price has always been whats on the website. I honestly don't even mind, with some vendors it feels like you are on a basar and they always tell you that their final discountns had to get approval by the CEO.

> Maybe we are too small but Datadog is one of the few vendors which we haven't been able to negotiate down in years.

We spend a few thousand a month with Datadog and our account manager reaches out every quarter to adjust our monthly commit up/down which provides a 20% discount (I think) or so off from the website prices.

Re: DataDog asked OpenTelemetry contributor to kill pull request

#85

Post by harpratap »

hosh wrote: post #24
xen2xen1 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wondered the same. Assume this is a threat to their business? An open source competitor can do something cool so they want to kill the functionality?

We use DD, and we have to use Otel for our Elixir apps to ingest spans into DD because there are no DD SDKs for Elixir or Erlang. From the perspective of a customer, I can tell you that DD already has quite a bit of a moat. Their main competitive advantage, and what got us into using it, is being able to correlate data across APM, custom metrics, and logging through the use of tagging. They then densely link data tog…

Their data correlation is awful compared to competitors like Honeycomb, Dynatrace and Instana. What we want to see is something that cuts through all the noisy data and show the users what anomalies are occurring. We shouldn't be sifting through bunch of outdated dashboards and notebooks in this day and age

Re: DataDog asked OpenTelemetry contributor to kill pull request

#86

Post by harpratap »

technimad wrote: post #82
hosh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we switched off of AppSignal, since our instrumentation as deeply intertwined with our code, it took a while to change that over to Otel. But at least now, being Otel, theoretically if we want to change it to a different vendor, we can. If we were to change off of DD, and there is an otel collector that can accept DD APM spans, then we can switch now, refactor later. In practice, DD has a lot going for it that I…

Why sample otel spans and miss out on the important ones?

Because of cost?

Re: DataDog asked OpenTelemetry contributor to kill pull request

#87

Post by jiggawatts »

phillipcarter wrote: post #48
jiggawatts wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the APM providers like New Relic, Data Dog, or Azure App Insights want a truly open ecosystem. The only reason they support "Open" Telemetry is because they're worried about lock-in at the data sources. For example, App Insights supports rich/structured telemetry via its proprietary SDK and various APIs. No open-source developer in their right mind would ever hard code such a proprietary dependency into somet…

I won't speculate on the top-level strategies of companies competing with another, so take this as a grain of salt. From my perspective (maintainer, employed by a vendor), all of us who work for these different companies collaborate very well together. We all recognize that it's both technically tractable and fundamentally user-friendly to make instrumentation be a common standard that anyone can use to point at any…

Everything you've just said is compatible with what I've said.

The vendors are concerned about being left out at the "source", and are seeking to differentiate with their proprietary "sink", usually closed-source SaaS solutions.

I'm not even arguing that this is bad, it's just how markets work, and it's currently beneficial to developers in general, including both open-source developers and the type working in a cubicle farm somewhere.

Re: DataDog asked OpenTelemetry contributor to kill pull request

#88

Post by ChrisCooneyUK »

Hawxy wrote: post #84
aeyes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> negotiated annual contract Maybe we are too small but Datadog is one of the few vendors which we haven't been able to negotiate down in years. The price has always been whats on the website. I honestly don't even mind, with some vendors it feels like you are on a basar and they always tell you that their final discountns had to get approval by the CEO.

> Maybe we are too small but Datadog is one of the few vendors which we haven't been able to negotiate down in years. We spend a few thousand a month with Datadog and our account manager reaches out every quarter to adjust our monthly commit up/down which provides a 20% discount (I think) or so off from the website prices.

[dead]

Re: DataDog asked OpenTelemetry contributor to kill pull request

#89

Post by ChrisCooneyUK »

ren_engineer wrote: post #30
icepat wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I entirely follow what's going on here. Is there some context behind this that's useful to know?

OpenTelemetry basically allows for vendor neutral instrumentation for your metrics, logs, and traces. It makes it easy to switch to a cheaper or better service with minimal lock-in, which is obviously bad for DataDog and other companies business model

[dead]
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