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Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

passingtime.substack.com

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Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've become confused as to the hierarchy. Here is the rule: 1. The human is the master 2. The machine is the slave There is always a way to change an order in a POS system. If there is no button to do that, that is not a concern for the customer.

The employer sets fees the employee just implements and isn't liable to be able to delete a fee. Your disagreement with employers policy isn't employees problem and you making it so kind of makes you the asshole. You ought to inform management that you disagree with the fee and won't be eating there again now that you know about it. You of course can no longer claim not to know about the fee after this point. Deletin…

You must be quite used to always being right in everything, since you think it's adequate to call somebody an asshole out of the blue when opinions are different.

I've managed restaurants and worked professionally with implementing POS systems. Any restaurant owner who tries to force customers pay an extra, hidden fee, after the food has been ordered and consumed knows that what they are doing is fraudulent. Maybe they don't know it is illicit.

Every POS system has a way to delete fees and parts of an order. Business would be impossible without this, since waiters make mistakes and have to correct them. And if the system doesn't have that function it is a problem for the restaurant, not for the client.

Many people share the same misconception that you have, that somehow the machine or POS system decides what the customer has to do. The purpose of a POS system is to make life easier for your staff - if that is implemented in a way that makes life harder for the customer it means you have failed badly. The human is the master and the machine is the servant. Therefore you as a customer politely but sternly refuse illicit fees when they try to force them on you.

Your talk about "going to city government" shows that you don't understand that these kind of fees already are illegal on state and federal levels. Recently the Federal Trade Commission in the United States has committed explicitly [1, 2] towards cracking down hard on these hidden fees, that they call "junk fees" in the hospitality industry. Let me quote for you:

"Unavoidable charges imposed on captive consumers: Consumers may be forced to pay junk fees because they have no way to avoid or opt out of them. They might be dealing with a company with a monopoly or exclusive rights that can extract fees because there is no competing option. Or consumers might get hit with fees after they have already sunk costs into a product or service, and they can’t easily walk away."

This is from the White House [3]:

"Surprise fees that consumers learn about after purchase. Surprise fees that consumers do not expect – and which may not be mandatory – similarly make it hard to comparison shop and can burden household finances."

Are they throwing temper tantrums? Are the state attorneys who are successfully prosecuting large hotel chains for junk fees throwing temper tantrums? Is the EU throwing temper tantrums about this?

Back in the real world there are countries where it is customary for restaurants to add a service fee - usually 10% - on the final bill. This is clearly stated on the menu, and usually the waiter will ask you for permission to add this fee before bringing you the bill. This system is used instead of tips. If the customer don't want to pay the fee they have the right to refuse it and all restaurants accept such a refusal. Imagine if the waiter said "Sorry, our machine doesn't allow us to remove the fee, so you have to pay. You pay now!". Most would laugh, you would pay.

[1] https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/prepare-for-renewe... [2] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/10/... [3] https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/blog/2022/10/26/the...

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#412
post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you're saying is that we should tip no matter what?

I think they’re saying that in America a tip is not a voluntary extra payment in gratitude for exceptionally good service. It’s a consultant free for hiring an independent subcontractor.

I'm sorry, I didn't hire an independent subcontractor, I bought goods from a national chain with very rich investors and executives.

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#413
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starlink?

Too many trees that I can't just cut down. I tried them out when they first launched, and it wants a view of the North sky. If I could point it to the South (or even straight up), I would give it another try. However, I am no longer convinced that it would be worth the cost to upgrade. Too many people have reported overall degraded service in the face of rising subscriptions. Moreover, my DSL service includes static…

I'd even argue if you can get 20 Mbps DSL that you're happy with, you're probably not in the target audience for Starlink. I'm on Starlink and the alternative is more like a 2 Mbps DSL...

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#414

Every time some company finds a new way to trade their morals for profits, it creates a system where every other company must also trade their morals or be out competed. Eventually we will reach a new equilibrium where every company has sold their morals and then they have to either start competing again on a new front or find new morals to sell. I don't have a pithy takeaway from this. It's capitalism.

See https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you tip the janitors of each place you frequent? What makes wait staff any more deserving of a living wage than other occupations? Realistically tipping is just a subsidy for corporations who choose to take more profit instead of pay a living wage to their workers.

Wait staff in many states make below minimum wage, with tips expected to make up the rest. So I always tip wait staff and will still tip when theses laws change. I also try to tip everyone I can when I have the means. Yes, I’d tip janitors, their job sucks, as do most jobs where you have to deal with the general public, and they’re underpaid.

The "expectation" of tips making up the rest is really just an expectation from the business that you will needlessly subsidize their payroll, in all 50 states the employer is mandated to always pay the minimum wage even if zero tips are earned https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips

I say tipping is unnecessary because there exist a few states like California who ban the practice of paying a lower "cash wage" and allowing businesses to keep tips for themselves. Anecdotally, I notice that typical restaurant bills in California are not any more expensive than nearby states like Nevada, Colorado, or Arizona.

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#417

Note that drip pricing for restaurants (e.g. 10-20% non-tip surcharge) is illegal in many jurisdictions (if not "conspicuously advertised" before eating), but some restaurants try to do it anyways (claiming the policy is "conspicuously advertised" on the last page of the menu, or a tiny sign behind the bar). Sometimes you can just refuse to pay it and they'll back down because they want a repeat customer more. Someti…

One thing I've noticed recently on 2 restaurant trips in the last couple weeks: The automatic tip calculations are wrong in the server/restaurant's favor. Most of us typically check the 20% option and don't double-check the math, but in the past these calculations were always done pre-tax. If your food came to $100 and you tipped 20%, the total would be $120 + sales tax. Now, the last 2 times I've eaten out the autom…

> The automatic tip calculations are wrong

Wrong implies that there's a right way to tip and that it isn't just a way for employers to get away with paying employees less.

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait staff in many states make below minimum wage, with tips expected to make up the rest. So I always tip wait staff and will still tip when theses laws change. I also try to tip everyone I can when I have the means. Yes, I’d tip janitors, their job sucks, as do most jobs where you have to deal with the general public, and they’re underpaid.

The "expectation" of tips making up the rest is really just an expectation from the business that you will needlessly subsidize their payroll, in all 50 states the employer is mandated to always pay the minimum wage even if zero tips are earned https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips I say tipping is unnecessary because there exist a few states like California who ban the practice of paying a lower "cash wa…

I say tipping is necessary, for me, because it helps people out.

Re: Companies use drip pricing to overcharge consumers

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tipping is the well-established cultural way for servers to make income. One could also argue that its a means for companies to intentionally under-pay their staff while also re-directing any anger at being exploited from the company to the consumer. Perfect divide and conquer tactics that has somehow become culturally engrained to the point that if anyone refuses to be part of this macabre tragedy they are framed…

Either way, sticking it to the man by denying waitstaff a tip is a poor method to fix an inequity. Just tip, so your server can get closer to a living wage for their hard work.

I don't live in that place so the advice isn't important. Also I think its fair to argue that joining this macabre dance is also a poor method to fix an inequity.

If its true what others say tips are deducted so their employers pay below minimum wage then why not pay the server outside of the transaction so the employer is forced to do what they should have been doing in the first place?

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