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Google is screwed, even if it wins its antitrust case

gizmodo.com

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Re: Google is screwed, even if it wins its antitrust case

#21

Post by minsc_and_boo »

titzer wrote: post #9

I'm not so sure AI is as big a threat as Google perceives it to be; back in 2009 the HUGE EXISTENTIAL THREAT was Social, therefore Google+, but that came and went and Google's growth continued unabated. That said, I do see a place for language-model driven search. And I shudder to think that language models will be specifically coerced, bribed, and have ingrained in their brains only what advertisers want. If you tho…

The article also assumes that Google doesn't have it's own chatGPT or other AI irons in the fire right now.

Google Assistant dropped a year after Alexa, and Android's reach helped bolster it's marketshare (antitrust investigation or not).

Re: Google is screwed, even if it wins its antitrust case

#22

Post by titzer »

smoldesu wrote: post #10
varispeed wrote: post #3

All big corporations have to be broken up. They have ill influence on everything and they are what many describe symptoms of late stage capitalism and our failure to regulate. They are like a player of Monopoly who bought everything. Alphabet shouldn't exist in its current form and so Apple, Amazon and many other corporations.

Truly, the problem is US complacency. It's a great day to tax businesses when US companies dominate the market, but as soon as a foreign competitor steps in? It's time to defend American competition and ingenuity! Hopefully, pushback from European regulators who are harder to fool (or buy out) will force the US to admit there's egg on our face. We've let corporate America write the rules for too long, and our democra…

> Hopefully, pushback from European regulators who are harder to fool (or buy out) will force the US to admit there's egg on our face. We've let corporate America write the rules for too long, and our democratic control over their abuse has become dilute and helpless. Something's gotta give, and I'm cheering for the countries that take user privacy and consumer rights seriously.

Hopefully. But don't underestimate the general public's abject apathy and religious belief that more "freedom" in markets fixes everything, even when it is obvious that bad actors are employing dark patterns to exploit the anarchy.

Re: Google is screwed, even if it wins its antitrust case

#23

Post by _fat_santa »

I made this comment in another thread but I can't decide if LLM / GPT is a seismic shift in search or just a gimmick.

I remember when Copilot came out last year and everyone was up in arms about how it will replace most developers, then the chatter quickly died when people realized that it's not that great outside a few specific scenarios, it just looked like it could kill the SWE industry from people that haven't been inside of it.

Now it seems the same is happening with ChatGPT. While it's easy to draw conclusions based on what you've seen ChatGPT do, I wonder if it will provide long term value or be a gimmick much like Copilot, having a bunch of simple applications but fail at the more advanced applications (which would be required for it to dethrone say Google Search).

Personally I think LLM/GPT will never replace the current Google search, it however will be baked into almost every search engine and allow an "alternative" way to search the web, where you get answers to simple questions right away without having to go to a website.

Re: Google is screwed, even if it wins its antitrust case

#24

Post by SCHiM »

smoldesu wrote: post #4

But Alphabet will probably be fine. YouTube and Android are still billion-user products that aren't being displaced with AI, and their advertising business doesn't seem threatened much by this either. So what's the scoop? I use ChatGPT, it hasn't replaced my search engine. They're insisting that search is obsoleted with AI (and Google is spooked internally) but I have yet to see any research-based evidence supporting…

I recently asked gpt to give me a markdown table of the continents, their landmass and their populations. I checked the numbers and they matched wikipedia.

Google gave me listicles instead...

Re: Google is screwed, even if it wins its antitrust case

#25

Post by jeffbee »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #6

Sometimes, I wonder if for the sake of small business and general good, if horizontal integration should be heavily regulated and restricted for publicly traded companies (not private ones). For example, Apple. Why aren't the software and hardware divisions separated, at a minimum? Furthermore, I might wonder, why couldn't iPhone, iPad, Mac, Audio Accessories etc. be separate companies? Sure, you'd lose a ton of the…

Software-hardware coevolution has large benefits to the consumer. What you are proposing is to just make the products worse and more expensive.

Re: Google is screwed, even if it wins its antitrust case

#26

Post by smallerfish »

jchw wrote: post #14

Google is probably screwed without it. Even if ad-tech isn't exactly a bubble, I strongly believe it is overvalued even still. Furthermore, the product that made their name is thoroughly lost. I dread Google Search today. If I found something on Google yesterday, I have no idea if I'll be able to locate it through the sea of blog SPAM and SEO garbage tomorrow. Google web search strongly favors big websites when somet…

Almost a meme at this point:

> I am not trying to suggest Duck Duck Go or Bing are actually better overall

Kagi is, however. Well worth putting your money where your mouth is and supporting them.

Re: Google is screwed, even if it wins its antitrust case

#27

Post by honkler »

jchw wrote: post #14

Google is probably screwed without it. Even if ad-tech isn't exactly a bubble, I strongly believe it is overvalued even still. Furthermore, the product that made their name is thoroughly lost. I dread Google Search today. If I found something on Google yesterday, I have no idea if I'll be able to locate it through the sea of blog SPAM and SEO garbage tomorrow. Google web search strongly favors big websites when somet…

since you talked about adtech being a bubble, I'll hijack your post to recommend this book: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374538651/subprimeattenti...

Re: Google is screwed, even if it wins its antitrust case

#28

Post by jqpabc123 »

Maybe a part of Google's problem is it's focus on "personalized" advertising.

Simple, context based advertising is much easier/simpler to implement --- no privacy invasion required. It also annoys the consumer a lot less and by some accounts is more cost effective.

Amazon in a ecommerce site. If I go there and search for widgets, I should reasonably expect (and maybe even appreciate) some ads from widget makers. What I don't expect and what I find annoying is ads for widgets following me all over the internet for days; even on non-commerce sites; even after I already made my widget purchase at a brick and mortar --- aka, the Google "personalized" approach.

"Personalized" ads are really kinda dumb --- but apparently Google has "sold" enough advertisers on the idea so they can charge a premium for them.

Re: Google is screwed, even if it wins its antitrust case

#29

Post by kitotik »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #6

Sometimes, I wonder if for the sake of small business and general good, if horizontal integration should be heavily regulated and restricted for publicly traded companies (not private ones). For example, Apple. Why aren't the software and hardware divisions separated, at a minimum? Furthermore, I might wonder, why couldn't iPhone, iPad, Mac, Audio Accessories etc. be separate companies? Sure, you'd lose a ton of the…

Regulating horizontal integration seems like it would be very difficult. How exactly would those horizons be clearly defined?

I’ve always thought of Apple having an emphasis on vertical integration(hardware+software=product). So maybe their foray into services would be the line in the sand?

Re: Google is screwed, even if it wins its antitrust case

#30

Post by kvandy »

smallerfish wrote: post #26
jchw wrote: post #14

Google is probably screwed without it. Even if ad-tech isn't exactly a bubble, I strongly believe it is overvalued even still. Furthermore, the product that made their name is thoroughly lost. I dread Google Search today. If I found something on Google yesterday, I have no idea if I'll be able to locate it through the sea of blog SPAM and SEO garbage tomorrow. Google web search strongly favors big websites when somet…

Almost a meme at this point: > I am not trying to suggest Duck Duck Go or Bing are actually better overall Kagi is, however. Well worth putting your money where your mouth is and supporting them.

Kagi has been a delightful experience for me for two months. Don't think I'm ever going back.
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