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Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

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Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#241

> One possible aid for sexual loneliness might come from online dating apps such as Tinder. In theory, online dating could provide an efficient way to find a partner. However, online dating divides people heavily into winners and losers – perhaps even more so than traditional dating. While women can get attention from thousands of men online in just a few hours, men are lucky if anyone is interested in them My wife d…

I've been running online communities for years and this, as far as I can see, factual. I've read somewhere, maybe multiple times, that most men are emotionally and sexually deprived. That sounds correct given the data I have. I'm ok looking and I feel like I can make women like me. I still struggle sometimes. Many of my friends do much worse than me. I have friends that I find intellectually stimulating, average-look…

In a past life I got pretty deep into trying to help guys like this.

There's a whole industry around it peddling advice that ranges from effective (yet impossible to implement for a broken person) to counter-productive and evil.

It's really very simple, but people just have massive amounts of negative programming that radiates out from them like a reverse pheromone.

Those who are hungry do not eat. You can't fake it, but letting go of fear and just talking to strangers in public flirting spaces (bar, club, maybe target, NOT WORK OR FRIENDS) over and over again while making no effort to hide one's sexual interest will eventually give one the appearance of non-attachment to sexual outcomes. Having a conversation with any kind of sexual implications while maintaining a stance of non-attachment to sexual outcomes is my definition of flirting.

The mindset (feel free to actually say this. it works): "I think we should do sexy stuff together because it would be fun for both of us, and I'm happy to tell you that because even if you say no, I hope I've flattered you and spoken my truth and that feels good."

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#242
I kind of agree that online dating has actually exacerbated existing issues rather than solving them. It's not even about the companies (eg Match) either. They simply follow what works. This is kind of a touchy subject because if you're not careful you can wander into the manosphere and become red-pilled (or, worse, black-pilled) and no good will come from that.

For convenience, let me describe this in the hetero-normative sense. Obviously this isn't th eonly dynamic at play and is not universal but there are some useful trends that (IMHO) can be extrapolated.

1. Men fear being rejected. Women fear being SAed, abducted, trafficked, beaten and/or killed. You cannot overstate how important this is. As such, women tend to be wary and will try and find signs and create rules to quickly filter people out;

2. (IMHO) Women aren't actually that good at filtering. Specifically, there is a significant correlation between traditional physical attractiveness and "trustworthiness" [1]. This extends to serial killers too [2].

3. Online dating rewards a set of skills that don't have all that much to do with relationships. People who master those skills tend to do very well. If their potential partners aren't looking for that and don't recognize it, they will be dissatisfied;

4. Men (in the hetero-normative sense) put in very little effort and somehow still have high expectations. Going to the gym by itself could put you ahead of the pack;

5. There are people who use dating apps as entertainment (eg they have no intention of meeting). If that's not what you want, you need to learn to filter that out ASAP;

6. As noted, women get a lot of messages and attention. Men, generally, get far less (each). This is exacerbated by men dominating dating apps in general.

My general advice for anyone to avoid falling down the Andrew Tate rookie hole is to, if you're a man:

1. Pay for premium and simply swipe right on everybody. Don't even look. Do this for half an hour once a week. Actually looking at a profile before deciding how to swipe is a poor use of time because each swipe is low probability no matter who you are. Only look at profiles for matches. You can always unmatch if you're not interested;

2. Your goal is to get to a meeting ASAP. It should be low investment too. Coffee, a walk (somewhere public), a museum, etc. There's no need and no point to spend a lot of money on first dates. Time management matters so do 3-4 1 hour blocks in a night, for example.

3. Don't take rejection personally. Just say "nice meeting you" and move on. This is part of the point of arranging a number of dates so you don't get over-invested too early in any particular prospective partner. Realize that even those you consider the most attractive still get rejected;

4. Don't tie your value in a relationship to your external status (eg job, car, how much money you spend, clothes, accessories). At best, you're probably attracting the wrong kind of partner (unless, you know, you want a sugar baby, which is all fine if consensual).

5. Put in some effort. You'll be surprised how far the bare minimum will get you regarding appearing groomed, clothed appropriately and even moderately fit and healthy. Go to the gym. Lift weights.

6. Avoid "yes or no" questions. Listen to the answers. Don't view it as a problem to be solved eg if someone is having problems with someone at work they're almost certainly not ask you to solve it for them.

7. Understand that women deal with a lot of shit (and, don't forget, actual danger). Be cognisant of that. Your idea of pushing and persistence may actually legitimiately scare someone and may rise to the level of a crime. You're not owed any explanation either. On the other side, realize women too can have toxic traits or simply traits you're not interested in. The term "femcel" exists for a reason. If and when that happens, it's because of that individual, not an indictment on an entire gender.

8. Whatever you do, don't get red-pilled.

[1]: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/146144481667544...

[2]: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-01/ted-bundy-why-the-ser...

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#243

I’d love to start a conversation here about attempting to solve this in a very narrowly defined place as an experiment. Since this is HN, I nominate San Francisco. My hypothesis is that the bandwidth required to present oneself and assess another person is larger than what fits in the self_awareness -> profile_creation -> dating_app_algorithm -> profile_selection -> personality_model_creation -> model_evaluation pipe…

Maybe have a dating app that hides photos until a certain level of communication/time occurs beforehand.... Does such a thing already exists?

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#244
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running online communities for years and this, as far as I can see, factual. I've read somewhere, maybe multiple times, that most men are emotionally and sexually deprived. That sounds correct given the data I have. I'm ok looking and I feel like I can make women like me. I still struggle sometimes. Many of my friends do much worse than me. I have friends that I find intellectually stimulating, average-look…

Aren't bars similar to dating sites? A forum for men to compete with other men for women. I would think they'd have better luck with group activities (rec sports, craft/hobby stuff) or online groups devoted to something (restaurant enthusiasts, etc).

Yes, but the crucial difference is that online you're competing with everyone else in your city, in a bar you're only competing with the other guys in the bar.

There's a strong winner-takes-all effect online

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#245

> One possible aid for sexual loneliness might come from online dating apps such as Tinder. In theory, online dating could provide an efficient way to find a partner. However, online dating divides people heavily into winners and losers – perhaps even more so than traditional dating. While women can get attention from thousands of men online in just a few hours, men are lucky if anyone is interested in them My wife d…

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Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#246
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if that's true. From most data I've seen women's preferences skew towards a small percentage of men. i.e. most women want the same guys, which are the small minority. This leaves (making up numbers) 80% of women wanting 20% of men. Where as men tend to be less discriminating in their choices of women.

>This leaves (making up numbers) 80% of women wanting 20% of men. Where as men tend to be less discriminating in their choices of women. Well... kind of. Except that men also tend to all be looking at the same pool of younger women, while women tend to look for men closer to their own age, according to OKCupid's data. https://www.businessinsider.com/dataclysm-shows-men-are-attr...

There is a big difference between what they see as "the best" and what they are looking at. If a 42 yo man sees a good looking 30 year old on a dating app he is quite unlikely to disregard her simply because she is not 20.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#247
post #63

There are a lot of factors at play here. Porn is ubiquitous which reduces the number of people looking for real-life hookups to satisfy their immediate urges. Awareness of the health risks (STDs, etc) of having many partners has probably never been higher. And the economic stakes of an unwanted pregnancy are higher than they've ever been due to increasing restrictions on abortion. If porn were outlawed, contraception…

Porn is ubiquitous which reduces the number of people looking for real-life hookups to satisfy their immediate urges Why is that a bad thing? For me the problem is the opposite - it might not completely satisfy it, but if it'd completely satisfy the urge, then wouldn't it be a good thing?

Get out of the house, meet people (even if only in the pursuit of getting laid), inadvertently make relationships in the process of just trying to get laid, find that special somebody. Or stay at home, jerk off, and then go browse the web.

Basically the urges we all have, even if they can obviously lead to some awful things, are also the process of aeons of evolution. And they've shown themselves to be remarkably effective at keeping our species alive and healthy even when we knew nothing at all about our world beyond what we might randomly intuit. Having a 'shot' that can pleasantly "fix" those urges is not necessarily a good thing.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#248
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if that's true. From most data I've seen women's preferences skew towards a small percentage of men. i.e. most women want the same guys, which are the small minority. This leaves (making up numbers) 80% of women wanting 20% of men. Where as men tend to be less discriminating in their choices of women.

>This leaves (making up numbers) 80% of women wanting 20% of men. Where as men tend to be less discriminating in their choices of women. Well... kind of. Except that men also tend to all be looking at the same pool of younger women, while women tend to look for men closer to their own age, according to OKCupid's data. https://www.businessinsider.com/dataclysm-shows-men-are-attr...

I think major difference being men will still message or go out with women they don't think are super attractive (but are ok), where as women won't.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#249

> One possible aid for sexual loneliness might come from online dating apps such as Tinder. In theory, online dating could provide an efficient way to find a partner. However, online dating divides people heavily into winners and losers – perhaps even more so than traditional dating. While women can get attention from thousands of men online in just a few hours, men are lucky if anyone is interested in them My wife d…

I've been running online communities for years and this, as far as I can see, factual. I've read somewhere, maybe multiple times, that most men are emotionally and sexually deprived. That sounds correct given the data I have. I'm ok looking and I feel like I can make women like me. I still struggle sometimes. Many of my friends do much worse than me. I have friends that I find intellectually stimulating, average-look…

Without or with it leads to all kind of emotional problems. So to be alone isnt that bad.

And relations are not always about sex, the most stable relations are based upon understanding and care friendship. Sure sex is something but after the kids do people still want to live like rabbits, well there much more in life than sex. The media might make you think peole have sex every day or so, thats bullshit some relations are not based on sex at all but are by all means perfect relastions. (some people dont enjoy sex, or because of medical reasons).

If you want a happy life enjoy other peoples smile, go to places where people smile, enjoy your life yourself visit places. There is no perfect face or figure. And stay away from people who build their life on consumables as drugs or alcoholics a its reciepe for disaster.

Dont try to search for it, not online either, accidents just happen ;)

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#250

I am happy about the study, since I think this is underresearched. However, I think Gini Index this is a horrible way to look at it. Regular sex is important, but regularly switching sex partners isn't really how I want to live my life. I don't want 50 lifetime partners, 38, 15, or even 12. I wanted one. That I have more than one is a sign of failure of a relationship each time, which is not a success. If I had my ch…

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