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Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

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Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#211

Post by welshwelsh »

itsmemattchung wrote: post #4

> One possible aid for sexual loneliness might come from online dating apps such as Tinder. In theory, online dating could provide an efficient way to find a partner. However, online dating divides people heavily into winners and losers – perhaps even more so than traditional dating. While women can get attention from thousands of men online in just a few hours, men are lucky if anyone is interested in them My wife d…

You are in the better position.

Her inbox might be flooded with messages, but most of those messages are spam. Most of the guys didn't even look at her profile, and instead swiped right on everyone and copy-pasted the same message to all of their matches. If she replies, most of them will not respond. Few will put in the effort to have a substantial conversation, and fewer will actually try to go out on a date with her.

If she goes on a date, she would end up in the same situation. She will probably carry the conversation and will be more interested in them than they are in her. Many will agree to have sex with her for the sake of their own pleasure, but few would attempt to give her pleasure. If she gets into a relationship, chances are the guy won't pull his weight (because he's not really interested) and she will end up doing all the work. He will regularly flake on her to hang out with his friends and play videogames, and will try to hide the fact that he doesn't actually like her as a person or enjoy being around her.

On the other hand, if you get a handful of responses, that means a handful of women are interested in you. They actually want to talk to YOU, to the extent that you are accurately represented by your profile. The chance that one of those people are a good match for you, and that they are willing to give you a fair chance is high. And if they end up not actually liking who you are, they will do you the favor of ending it instead of wasting your time.

As for guys who don't get matches or messages at all: it's because your profile sucks. Take better pictures. No, those pictures suck too, try again.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#212

Post by wonderwonder »

jsz0 wrote: post #126

Jordan Peterson is completely wrong though. Monogamy is part of the problem. We should normalize as a society that there are indeed people you just want to have sex with but are not interested in marrying/reproduction with. It shouldn't be that big of a deal.

I don't think anyone has an issue with that. Everyone that does not want to be monogamous is free to do so with others the do not want to be monogamous. I think tinder is well known for this. For many other people monogamy is important and a violation of that monogamy is grounds for ending a relationship. Why can both groups not just live their lives and wish each other well? The OP article is not about that, men that want to have sex, monogamous or not are not able to and that number is increasing.

I've been with my wife for 23 years now, more than half my life. 100% monogamous on both sides. It works for us and if either one of us was to cheat then that would be the end of the relationship. Relationships are managed by rules accepted by both sides. If a relationship does not want to have monogamy in its rule set and all parties agree then more power to them.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#213

Post by joewhale »

jsz0 wrote: post #126

Jordan Peterson is completely wrong though. Monogamy is part of the problem. We should normalize as a society that there are indeed people you just want to have sex with but are not interested in marrying/reproduction with. It shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Could you share how you formed this thought? Why is monogamy part of the problem?

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#214

Post by dragonwriter »

> One possible aid for sexual loneliness might come from online dating apps such as Tinder. In theory, online dating could provide an efficient way to find a partner.

In a theory that, like many 101-level econonic theories, assumes no-cost perfect information, rather than the real costs of information gathering on the alternatives and the real incentives to game this (making it worse for everyone else) by misrepresentation.

I would in fact argue that a major cause of the modern issue is belief in the theory that dating apps offer this, and the divide between that theory and the reality. Even pre-dating apps, the dating methods that did the most to divorce dating from general social intercourse contributed to this, but dating apps take that to a whole new level.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#215

Post by [deleted] »

retrac wrote: post #162
itsmemattchung wrote: post #4

> One possible aid for sexual loneliness might come from online dating apps such as Tinder. In theory, online dating could provide an efficient way to find a partner. However, online dating divides people heavily into winners and losers – perhaps even more so than traditional dating. While women can get attention from thousands of men online in just a few hours, men are lucky if anyone is interested in them My wife d…

I think it's very telling there's no real lesbian equivalent to the sex clubs for gay men, or Grindr for that matter. They do exist; relatively few women actually use them. Pornography by and for gay men, is as popular if not more so, with gay men as pornography is with straight men. The market for such material aimed at women, gay or straight, is rather marginal by comparison. Similarly, a very large % of gay men wh…

[deleted]

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#216

Post by mc32 »

itsmemattchung wrote: post #4

> One possible aid for sexual loneliness might come from online dating apps such as Tinder. In theory, online dating could provide an efficient way to find a partner. However, online dating divides people heavily into winners and losers – perhaps even more so than traditional dating. While women can get attention from thousands of men online in just a few hours, men are lucky if anyone is interested in them My wife d…

How you write profiles probably matters. If you're sparse or you're too wordy, that's going to put people off.

You also have to have some hooks --things that are part of your personality that can instigate some interest. Could be climbing, playing an instrument, working on a farm, etc. But also don't make things up. Looks matter, but after that initial attraction, other things matter, are they organized, are they too compulsive... You know their habits and so on. You want someone normal but also not someone boring, for the most part.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#217

Post by AdamH12113 »

itsmemattchung wrote: post #4

> One possible aid for sexual loneliness might come from online dating apps such as Tinder. In theory, online dating could provide an efficient way to find a partner. However, online dating divides people heavily into winners and losers – perhaps even more so than traditional dating. While women can get attention from thousands of men online in just a few hours, men are lucky if anyone is interested in them My wife d…

From what I've gathered by listening to women, there are fundamentally different problems. "Attention" is not valuable in itself. Getting spammed with dick pics is about as appealing as any other kind of spam. No one looks in their spam folder and thinks "Gosh, all of these advertisers think I have money to burn! What a great compliment!". It doesn't show any personal interest. It's not a sign that the other person is going to treat you like a human being instead of a sentient (flesh-)wallet.

The difference in experiences starts early in life. For boys, girls showing interest in them is often an exciting and empowering experience. For girls, often as not, the first sign of sexual interest is a creepy older man making uncomfortable comments at them when they're 11 years old. IIRC this shows up in mental health statistics -- boys who start puberty earlier tend to do better; girls who start puberty earlier tend to do worse. And of course there are different social standards applied to men's and women's sexuality.

Women also have much bigger safety concerns than men do, and have a harder time getting anything done about attacks afterwards.

I think all of this does make it harder for women to understand the destructive loneliness that a lot of men (particularly young men) face. I've been there, and I remember that trying to talk about with my female friends was a frustrating experience. But over time I've come to see that women don't really have it any better than we do. We're wandering through a desert looking for an oasis; they're swimming through a lake of garbage looking for an intact water bottle.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#218

Post by wrldos »

itsmemattchung wrote: post #4

> One possible aid for sexual loneliness might come from online dating apps such as Tinder. In theory, online dating could provide an efficient way to find a partner. However, online dating divides people heavily into winners and losers – perhaps even more so than traditional dating. While women can get attention from thousands of men online in just a few hours, men are lucky if anyone is interested in them My wife d…

Having done the dating thing for a while and being male, I've had no problem with making contacts and going on dates. Quality not quantity. Can easily end up on two dates a week. I'm nothing special.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#219

Post by michaelt »

ajross wrote: post #148
spaniard89277 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running online communities for years and this, as far as I can see, factual. I've read somewhere, maybe multiple times, that most men are emotionally and sexually deprived. That sounds correct given the data I have. I'm ok looking and I feel like I can make women like me. I still struggle sometimes. Many of my friends do much worse than me. I have friends that I find intellectually stimulating, average-look…

> I'm ok looking and I feel like I can make women like me. So, I promise I'm not just picking on the phrasing (though yeah, the phrasing is pretty bad). I find it amazing that you went through that whole discussion about the perspective of your seemingly-hetero-male-only social environment without once recognizing that intimacy is a two-way transaction and that the other party needs to get something in return. Everyo…

> Your whole comment is about women in some sense, but the only time their perspective even enters the discussion is in one sentence where you talk about compelling them to like you out of physical desire?

Presumably what spaniard89277 means is "I have talked to long-term-single men and this is what I think their aggregate perspective is, I don't know many long-term-single women so I don't really know their perspective"

After all, if he knew a lot of single people of both genders, presumably he'd point them at one another.

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