Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem? • Hacker News Board

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#181

Post by zb3 » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 5:39 PM UTC

jurassic wrote: post #105

zb3 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porn is ubiquitous which reduces the number of people looking for real-life hookups to satisfy their immediate urges Why is that a bad thing? For me the problem is the opposite - it might not completely satisfy it, but if it'd completely satisfy the urge, then wouldn't it be a good thing?

The OP frames sexual loneliness as a problem. I don't think it's a huge leap to say porn is part of the reason why people are having less real-life sex. Morally I have no issue with it, but ease/speed/price are important factors in market behavior. It's why I'm more likely to flop down on the couch to watch Netflix than drive across town to watch a movie at the cinema, or listen to Spotify vs attend a live music perf…

  sexual loneliness as a problem

This isn't the root problem though, its consequences are, including how one feels.

  It's why I'm more likely to flop down on the couch to watch Netflix than drive across town to watch a movie at the cinema

So you pick the better option, right? That's why I asked my question, the problem can't be that a better option exists, it must be something else and it should be precisely stated.

  The cinema and the rock concert are probably better experiences, but streaming makes everything so easy and cheap I don't often seek out those experiences.

So overall they're better only if you exclude their negative consequences.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#182

Post by Levitz » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

cmh89 wrote: post #93

spaniard89277 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running online communities for years and this, as far as I can see, factual. I've read somewhere, maybe multiple times, that most men are emotionally and sexually deprived. That sounds correct given the data I have. I'm ok looking and I feel like I can make women like me. I still struggle sometimes. Many of my friends do much worse than me. I have friends that I find intellectually stimulating, average-look…

It's interesting to me. I have female friends in their 30s who go on tons of dates but reject pretty much all of them for any long-term relationship. The ones they seem to be in to tend to reject them after a couple of dates. I'm not there in those interactions but I wonder how much of it is a mismatch between what you desire in a relationship and who you are attracted to in a person.

>It's interesting to me. I have female friends in their 30s who go on tons of dates but reject pretty much all of them for any long-term relationship. The ones they seem to be in to tend to reject them after a couple of dates.

This is simply the other side of the coin, "online dating divides people heavily into winners and losers"

What is happening is that in the same way most women get more attention than most men, the few men who do get attention get to pick and choose because all of the women are going for them.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#183

Post by yamtaddle » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

zb3 wrote: post #33

The need itself is the problem, and it's really surprising noone looks at it this way. A drug that 'd make me completely asexual (with no orientation) is the real solution for me, as currently there's none available.

There too was Cephalus the father of Polemarchus, whom I had not seen for a long time, and I thought him very much aged. He was seated on a cushioned chair, and had a garland on his head, for he had been sacrificing in the court; and there were some other chairs in the room arranged in a semicircle, upon which we sat down by him.

[....]

[Socrates:] And this is a question which I should like to ask of you who have arrived at that time which the poets call the “threshold of old age” —Is life harder towards the end, or what report do you give of it?

[....]

[Cephalus, after listing the ways others claim getting old sucks:] But this is not my own experience, nor that of others whom I have known. How well I remember the aged poet Sophocles, when in answer to the question, How does love suit with age, Sophocles —are you still the man you were? Peace, he replied; most gladly have I escaped the thing of which you speak; I feel as if I had escaped from a mad and furious master. His words have often occurred to my mind since, and they seem as good to me now as at the time when he uttered them.

— Plato, The Republic, Book I

(It's worth noting that some readings of this are that Socrates is giving Cephalus a little friendly ribbing by prompting him to talk about this, Socrates [the character, or the man, either way] actually being around the same age as Cephalus in this dialog and still plainly being far more vigorous and eagerly engaging with life)

------------

I don't need a lover, no, no, no

The wretched beast is tame

I don't need a lover

So blow out the flame

— Leonard Cohen, "Leaving the Table", from his final album.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#184

Post by notch656c » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #118

frognumber wrote: post #24

I am happy about the study, since I think this is underresearched. However, I think Gini Index this is a horrible way to look at it. Regular sex is important, but regularly switching sex partners isn't really how I want to live my life. I don't want 50 lifetime partners, 38, 15, or even 12. I wanted one. That I have more than one is a sign of failure of a relationship each time, which is not a success. If I had my ch…

So the problem about 1930s-style relationships, is that a lot more of them were held together by fear and taboo than people would care to admit. Abusive relationships usually aren't known by the public. Someone might try to leave an abusive relationship, but be shamed by the public for not being "committed enough" or even get excommunicated from their church. I'm now happily married, and I hope to remain so for life.…

I honestly don't know which is worse though. The 1930s fear and taboo or the 2020 divorce court take you to the cleaners, TRO issued and banned from seeing your kids and your guns taken away and then tossed in jail because you lost your job and the judge says you still owe support. I think I'd actually take the 1930s and I say that as someone who really dislikes those taboos and social pressures you mention.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#185

Post by tsimionescu » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #109

f-securus wrote: post #5

Legalize prostitution and regulate safety and perhaps incels would build confidence and learn to socialize a bit from paid sexual interactions? I'm kind of ignorant to the subject of what is the cause of 'sexual loneliness' but I believe the world's oldest profession shouldn't be pushed into the shadows as that causes more problems than it prevents.

100% this. How many acts of violence by lonely men would be avoided if they had just had the opportunity to go out, drop $150 and have sex. Especially sex that catered to whatever fetish they happened to indulge in. I have no scientific numbers to back this but I am willing to be the answer is "a lot". I feel like if an isolated, angry virgin was able to have sex in a non judgmental environment they would lose their…

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Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#186

Post by maweaver » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

nh23423fefe wrote: post #78

wpietri wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that like she's getting the good end of the deal. But everything I've heard from women on those apps, they'd rather have the "handful of sincere responses" experience than the "bazillion goofs spamming them and sending dick pics at the first hello".

This isn't a refutation. You aren't saying women would trade places with men. You're saying women would trade the current experience of massive attention for a new experience of curated sincere attention. So damaging the male experience further.

I don't know if they would trade places with men, but it's definitely not a fun experience for them either. There seems to be a large group of men out there who are, not to put too fine a point on it, "single for a reason". Curating them out of the matches would damage their experience, but vastly improve the experience for everyone else. And maybe help clue them in that they need to make some changes if they want to find a compatible partner. Assuming a perfect curation system, which, I concede, is impossible.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#187

Post by JeremyBanks » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #109

f-securus wrote: post #5

Legalize prostitution and regulate safety and perhaps incels would build confidence and learn to socialize a bit from paid sexual interactions? I'm kind of ignorant to the subject of what is the cause of 'sexual loneliness' but I believe the world's oldest profession shouldn't be pushed into the shadows as that causes more problems than it prevents.

100% this. How many acts of violence by lonely men would be avoided if they had just had the opportunity to go out, drop $150 and have sex. Especially sex that catered to whatever fetish they happened to indulge in. I have no scientific numbers to back this but I am willing to be the answer is "a lot". I feel like if an isolated, angry virgin was able to have sex in a non judgmental environment they would lose their…

[dead]

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#188

Post by Zigurd » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

jsz0 wrote: post #126

Jordan Peterson is completely wrong though. Monogamy is part of the problem. We should normalize as a society that there are indeed people you just want to have sex with but are not interested in marrying/reproduction with. It shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Jordan Peterson's life is a freakshow. If he had such idiosyncratic views on coding, nobody here would even consider listening to him. If you want to keep your dick dry, go watch some JP.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#189

Post by wpietri » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 5:41 PM UTC

nh23423fefe wrote: post #78

wpietri wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that like she's getting the good end of the deal. But everything I've heard from women on those apps, they'd rather have the "handful of sincere responses" experience than the "bazillion goofs spamming them and sending dick pics at the first hello".

This isn't a refutation. You aren't saying women would trade places with men. You're saying women would trade the current experience of massive attention for a new experience of curated sincere attention. So damaging the male experience further.

It's been a while since I was on a dating site, but my experience was exactly that of a small amount of incoming attention, but almost all of it sincere. So yes, I think a lot of women would be happy to make that trade.

I just never saw a lot of the awful behavior that women get on the regular. E.g., the guys who will go from "u r hot" to "fuck you bitch" in a series of DMs over 12 hours with absolutely no response from women. It honestly amazes me that so many of them stay in the dating market at all.

Re: Sexual loneliness: A neglected public health problem?

#190

Post by CobrastanJorji » Thu, Jan 26, 2023, 5:41 PM UTC

cuuupid wrote: post #71

guerrilla wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we skip the dystopia and do some free-software peer-to-peer or federated solution somehow? Are ActivityPub-like protocols useful for this?

Possibly, as disgusting as it sounds this is a pretty good use case for web3. Federate identity via blockchain to prevent bad actors, require a $1 or so NFT to use the app to prevent scammers from mass-botting, and some regular security and privacy measures = you’re good to go Expanding user graphs for matches across multiple nodes isn’t just easy, it’s actually way more efficient too. Have nodes calculate match like…

Interesting, but if the information's public, that's a no go. Nobody wants their personal information out there. And seeing all of the information before you submit your own profile is problematic, especially if the algorithm's known and reproducible. I'm afraid you'd have a system where you could declare "a great match" to any targeted account for the cost of $1. Worse, you're now snagged in the canonical smart contract problem: you can't fix problems in the algorithm anymore. How do you tune the dang thing after release?