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Nostr: Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays

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Re: Nostr: Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays

#61

Post by Turing_Machine »

nine_k wrote: post #9

The biggest problem I see here is forwarding someone else's unknown and unencrypted content. Imagine you're running a relay on your machine, and somebody posts some CSAM, or stolen CC data, or hate speech, etc through your relay. Unlike an email client, your relay actually makes that message available to anyone. Unlike an email relay, you are not forwarding the message to someone else like a dumb pipe; there's no fin…

> The biggest problem I see here is forwarding someone else's unknown and unencrypted content.

Like email.

> Unlike an email client, your relay actually makes that message available to anyone.

On the contrary. Public mailing lists work exactly like this. You send a "subscribe" message (or enter your email address and click on a "subscribe" button, or whatever), and the server starts forwarding all the messages to you.

Re: Nostr: Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays

#62

Post by vorpalhex »

sph wrote: post #36
nine_k wrote: post #9

The biggest problem I see here is forwarding someone else's unknown and unencrypted content. Imagine you're running a relay on your machine, and somebody posts some CSAM, or stolen CC data, or hate speech, etc through your relay. Unlike an email client, your relay actually makes that message available to anyone. Unlike an email relay, you are not forwarding the message to someone else like a dumb pipe; there's no fin…

> Imagine you're running a relay on your machine, and somebody posts some CSAM, or stolen CC data, or hate speech, etc through your relay. Relays can be authenticated. If you don't want your relay to accept data from anyone, don't leave it open. Same with any other Internet protocol. Also, per the spec or convention, relays SHALL NOT talk to each other. Each relay is a separate island, but the protocol permits and re…

> Also, per the spec or convention, relays SHALL NOT talk to each other.

That has no bearing on an attacker.

Re: Nostr: Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays

#63

Post by vorpalhex »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #61
nine_k wrote: post #9

The biggest problem I see here is forwarding someone else's unknown and unencrypted content. Imagine you're running a relay on your machine, and somebody posts some CSAM, or stolen CC data, or hate speech, etc through your relay. Unlike an email client, your relay actually makes that message available to anyone. Unlike an email relay, you are not forwarding the message to someone else like a dumb pipe; there's no fin…

> The biggest problem I see here is forwarding someone else's unknown and unencrypted content. Like email. > Unlike an email client, your relay actually makes that message available to anyone. On the contrary. Public mailing lists work exactly like this. You send a "subscribe" message (or enter your email address and click on a "subscribe" button, or whatever), and the server starts forwarding all the messages to you…

Those have both been major problems for email. Enough that email has had multiple attempts at becoming encrypted, and mailing lists are very defunct for any sizeable group.

Re: Nostr: Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays

#64

Post by wcerfgba »

Is there a threat model? This does not seem to provide any metadata anonymity: if you ask a relay for someone's pubs, they know you're the person asking for it. Perhaps this could be layered with onion routing through relays to sole that though. At which point this feels like cryptographically-addressed NNTP, which is neato!

Re: Nostr: Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays

#65

Post by cactusplant7374 »

larrysalibra wrote: post #25
gigatexal wrote: post #22

I don't understand Nostr's comments on trying to be deplatform-proof. On Mastodon, for example, if you get kicked off a node just spin up your own node. If nobody wants to hear you spewing your stuff then you'll soon be screaming into the void but what you post will still be viewable on the web and to those that subscribe to you. So I don't get what Nostr is trying to do.

If you get kicked off a mastodon server, you lose your followers and posts unless you're able to move your account before you're kicked off - which requires the cooperation of the server that wants to kick you off. > If nobody wants to hear you spewing your stuff then you'll soon be screaming into the void but what you post will still be viewable on the web and to those that subscribe to you. People who are de-platfo…

> People who are de-platformed are almost always people who others WANT to hear.

A tiny minority. The majority listens to public health (in the case of Covid) and doesn’t want to read conspiracy theories or research analysis by someone unqualified.

Re: Nostr: Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays

#66

Post by cactusplant7374 »

gigatexal wrote: post #58
larrysalibra wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get kicked off a mastodon server, you lose your followers and posts unless you're able to move your account before you're kicked off - which requires the cooperation of the server that wants to kick you off. > If nobody wants to hear you spewing your stuff then you'll soon be screaming into the void but what you post will still be viewable on the web and to those that subscribe to you. People who are de-platfo…

> People who are de-platformed are almost always people who others WANT to hear. Think of all the famous people deplatformed from big tech social media...10s of millions of followers each. It wasn't that "no one" wanted to hear them, but that the people that controlled the platform didn't want others to be able to hear them. They have platforms they could go to. Parler, Rumble, Truth Social, their own blogs/websites,…

Federated is okay as long as it’s not used to organize violent acts. Sunshine isn’t always the best medicine.

Re: Nostr: Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays

#67

Post by Turing_Machine »

vorpalhex wrote: post #63
Turing_Machine wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The biggest problem I see here is forwarding someone else's unknown and unencrypted content. Like email. > Unlike an email client, your relay actually makes that message available to anyone. On the contrary. Public mailing lists work exactly like this. You send a "subscribe" message (or enter your email address and click on a "subscribe" button, or whatever), and the server starts forwarding all the messages to you…

Those have both been major problems for email. Enough that email has had multiple attempts at becoming encrypted, and mailing lists are very defunct for any sizeable group.

> Enough that email has had multiple attempts at becoming encrypted

But all those attempts have failed. One presumes that this is because people like email the way it is... simple to use.

> mailing lists are very defunct for any sizeable group.

Hmm... I still subscribe to at least half a dozen mailing lists, some of which have hundreds or thousands of members.

Re: Nostr: Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays

#68

Post by snapcaster »

cactusplant7374 wrote: post #66
gigatexal wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People who are de-platformed are almost always people who others WANT to hear. Think of all the famous people deplatformed from big tech social media...10s of millions of followers each. It wasn't that "no one" wanted to hear them, but that the people that controlled the platform didn't want others to be able to hear them. They have platforms they could go to. Parler, Rumble, Truth Social, their own blogs/websites,…

Federated is okay as long as it’s not used to organize violent acts. Sunshine isn’t always the best medicine.

Centralized social media has inspired and organized countless violent acts. Malaysia and India with Whatsapp is probably the most shocking. I don't see the connection between Federation/Centralization/etc. and violence. Can you explain your reasoning?

Re: Nostr: Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays

#70

Post by acdha »

aliqot wrote: post #52
acdha wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It wasn't that "no one" wanted to hear them, but that the people that controlled the platform didn't want others to be able to hear them. More accurately, it was because they repeatedly broke the terms of service and the companies were no longer willing to use their resources to provide free amplification for them. They had legal agreements with the platform and despite many warnings and leeway which isn’t extended…

oh stop, this aint the time.

It is, though, because if you don’t understand or are unwilling to honestly describe what really happened you won’t be able to come up with a viable response.
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