This photograph is free • Hacker News Board

Re: This photograph is free

#11

Post by aspir » Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 7:36 PM UTC

jenius wrote: post #8

I could not be happier about this article, and the fact that the two are presented next to each other. While I totally agree with @aspir in that both points of view are valid and deserve to be respected, I think this is the right attitude, and the one that will really get you ahead. If photography is your full time job and you are not getting paid for it, sure you have a reason to complain. You are doing good work, a…

I do agree with you -- the best way to grow yourself, your brand and the community is to give. However, the ones with the most to lose aren't hobbyists working for the love of the art, it's the professionals. Its a very slippery slope, but the process of releasing free work tends to drive down prices for everyone, for better or worse.

The best way I can think of to support this is the Apple App Store. Because of the widespread nature of apps priced from $0.00-$1.99, its nearly impossible for the average single developer to make a living only on apps, even though the software itself could be amazing, powerful, and solve painful needs.

To be frank, I honestly don't know if the community would be better with a different app store. I have no idea -- we can only take the one we have. I guess my point is just that there are always unforeseen repercussions with these decisions.

Re: This photograph is free

#12

Post by notatoad » Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 7:36 PM UTC

Jun8 wrote: post #3

Thanks for the great photo! Although I agree with you on most points, I think it is beneficial to have a middle road between the previous post and this one, e.g. if you had put up many more of your gorgeous photos and provided a way to make a small donation for each download (I would gladly would have paid a dollar).

i don't see donation as being a middle road, in my interpretation it is the opposite of what both of these authors are saying. the point is that when you create something, it is yours to decide what to do with it, it is up to you to decide how much it is worth. If you want to give your work away for free, that is your prerogative. if you want to charge for it, you have that right. it is not the customer's right to tell you how much your work is worth.

Re: This photograph is free

#13

Post by synth » Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 7:38 PM UTC

aspir wrote: post #5

I hope everyone understands, including the authors themselves, that each author in this back-and-forth is correct. The right to give and the right to charge are inherently personal decisions that only the owner of the photo can make. This was the main frustration that I had with the "this photograph is not free" comments, as well as the tone the author of this article takes. It doesn't matter what the commentators cl…

"I give my work away for free because it makes other people smile and I like that" is not a rebuttal to "people shouldn't be taking other people's work for free if the author doesn't want them to". If anything it's just a smug attempt at being holier-than-thou.

Re: This photograph is free

#14

Post by napoleoncomplex » Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 7:39 PM UTC

Unfortunately, pride and people's smiles are not yet valid currency anywhere, which is most likely the big issue of the author of "This photograph is not free". This post ends with the opinion that there isn't a lot of money to be made in photography, since a lot of people have the tools to take/publish photographs. One could apply that to a number of fields, from logo design and music to coding. After all, everyone has a computer, a text editor and access to github.

Yes, these fields might not be as lucrative as they once were, or rather, they're more competitive, but there is a large step between that and giving away things for free.

Re: This photograph is free

#15

Post by noonespecial » Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 7:40 PM UTC

All of the professional fotogs I know are paid not for photos the have taken, but for photos people would like them to take. The photos that they have taken are just proof that if you hire them to take photos for you, they will be good.

In this way, I think this author's point of view is slightly more economically advantageous than the "this photo cost $6500" guy.

Re: This photograph is free

#16

Post by antoko » Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 7:40 PM UTC

rikelme wrote: post #4

Awesome photo ! The tower shadow angle looks odd, though.

If you mean in reference to the Sun, then it sure does... but it isn't actually a shadow, it's a reflection.

Re: This photograph is free

#17

Post by bad_user » Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 7:40 PM UTC

aspir wrote: post #5

I hope everyone understands, including the authors themselves, that each author in this back-and-forth is correct. The right to give and the right to charge are inherently personal decisions that only the owner of the photo can make. This was the main frustration that I had with the "this photograph is not free" comments, as well as the tone the author of this article takes. It doesn't matter what the commentators cl…

What you are saying is true, however for products for which supply exceeds demand and which can be easily copied, then charging for such products does not work so well.

For example, in the early days of our industry, many people buying licensed software were doing so because copying on floppy disks was error prone and packaged software was getting distributed on storage of higher quality. Licensed software also worked as expected, while software copied from friends had all sorts of "surprises". Plus it came with a useful manual, which was great prior to the Internet.

Our economy is based on scarcity. If scarcity is only artificial, then the model breaks down. You simply can't appeal to people's feelings, not after decades of teaching people to embrace individualism.

Re: This photograph is free

#18

Post by aspir » Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 7:40 PM UTC

bcrescimanno wrote: post #10

aspir wrote: post #5

I hope everyone understands, including the authors themselves, that each author in this back-and-forth is correct. The right to give and the right to charge are inherently personal decisions that only the owner of the photo can make. This was the main frustration that I had with the "this photograph is not free" comments, as well as the tone the author of this article takes. It doesn't matter what the commentators cl…

Not to digress too much from your original comment (which I completely agree with) but I think there's a certain "smugness" that I see associated with people who release anything as free--as if somehow the act of benevolence has put them on a plane above those who choose not to. I think that's unfortunate for multiple reasons; not the least of which is that people should be commended for sharing things under free / o…

I feel the same as you. Giving (music, money, software), is extremely personal, and one that shouldn't be done lightly, or out of pressure from others.

Personally, I'd love to be able to release a beneficial OSS software tool or commit a valuable patch to a project, but I'm not a good enough developer. Yet, I feel like a second class citizen in the development community because I haven't

Re: This photograph is free

#19

Post by joelthelion » Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 7:41 PM UTC

aspir wrote: post #5

I hope everyone understands, including the authors themselves, that each author in this back-and-forth is correct. The right to give and the right to charge are inherently personal decisions that only the owner of the photo can make. This was the main frustration that I had with the "this photograph is not free" comments, as well as the tone the author of this article takes. It doesn't matter what the commentators cl…

Unfortunately, the "right to charge" is something that is almost unenforceable in the day of the internet. If you base your business model on this idea, you will spend a lot of time fighting a losing battle against the fact that information is freely exchangeable around the whole world.

Re: This photograph is free

#20

Post by funkah » Wed, Jan 11, 2012, 7:42 PM UTC

aspir wrote: post #5

I hope everyone understands, including the authors themselves, that each author in this back-and-forth is correct. The right to give and the right to charge are inherently personal decisions that only the owner of the photo can make. This was the main frustration that I had with the "this photograph is not free" comments, as well as the tone the author of this article takes. It doesn't matter what the commentators cl…

This author is partially refuting the original, though. It's not just saying "I give away my photos", it's also saying that it is unrealistic to expect to make money from photography because so many people have a camera and the tools to publish their photographs.

I don't really agree with this because the skill and artistic inclination of the photographer is still a critical factor in how the photo turns out. But it is an argument against the original article, make no mistake there.