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Japan has changed in important and visible ways

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Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#331

Post by willbudd »

bcherny wrote: post #281
willbudd wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, naturalization only involves a basic language test at around the level of N3; which should be very easy if you picked up any Japanese at all during the years spent living in the country. The reason so few people acquire Japanese citizenship is not because of the difficulty doing so, but because it offers little in terms of tangible benefits beyond those already acquired by virtue of having permanent…

Quick corrections: 1. N3 isn’t that easy. You need to learn 600 kanji, plus reading and grammar. It takes over 1000 hours of focused study [1]. It’s a stretch to call it “basic” or “very easy”. 2. There’s no double taxation for US citizens living in Japan, thanks to the foreign tax credit [2]. [1] https://cotoacademy.com/study-hours-needed-pass-jlpt-compari... [2] https://brighttax.com/blog/the-american-foreign-tax-c…

1. I guess it depends on the situation. I assumed N3 was very easy, because I passed N1 with ease. I don't really like to bring it up, because it sounds like bragging, but that's my experience at least. Maybe using the language in a professional context on a day to day basis helps more than I appreciate. Then again, I'd expect some degree of familiarity to form naturally if you live here as a 社会人 of sorts.

2. True, but the credit is only up to a certain amount AFAIK. And still having to file taxes to the IRS every single year sounds annoying. (But I don't know. I'm not American.)

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#332

Post by rayiner »

Nathanba wrote: post #325
eloisant wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we should shame people for not speaking the language of the country they live in, however it's important to stress that you're really missing out when you don't speak the local language. It will vary a lot by countries, because in some of them (i.e. northern european countries) everyone will be able to speak English so not only you have less incentive to learn the local language but it will be very diff…

I think we should shame people for that: A nation is like a big family. You're essentially saying that you don't think that you should be able to talk to your own family in their language.

It’s not only that. It’s just more work communicating with someone in your non-native language. Especially in Japan where many people don’t speak English well. So you’re creating an additional burden on the people around you.

And that absolutely should be shamed, especially when you’re talking about a society like Japan that places high value on individuals acting in ways that make things easier for people around them and society at large.

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#333

Post by saiya-jin »

izacus wrote: post #201
saiya-jin wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should definitely get off your high horse a bit, world is a bit bigger than your opinions. There are millions of very smart high earning expats all over the world that see no reason to learn local language well if its ie too hard for them, they practically never use it (ie at work its english, at home its XYZ and for basic chit chat you get by with few hundreds of basic words), or simply don't have time to learn…

Look, good for you if you refuse to learn the language of your society.... As long as you don't attempt to write opinion pieces about that society you have no hope of integrating or understanding. That's what the article writer did.

Nobody said outright refusing, I specifically mentioned even with few hundreds of words you can get by in many societies (probably not Japan or ie China though). Its about priorities, one has very little free time and for some there are more important matters than talking a bit better to strangers. Many languages require multi-year frequent commitment, you can learn tons of other skills or sports instead.

You can certainly write opinions, that's what they are, internet is still mostly free for speech. Not sure why you feel as an authority on who can write what. Something about high horse again? Living somewhere you can get tons of positives and negatives of state, society etc. even if not understanding a word. Maybe not 100% picture, but enough to form an opinion and write about it

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#334

Post by ubercore »

miroljub wrote: post #327
ubercore wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American living in Norway, in a larger city (for Norway). It's hard to learn, because when I try my burgeoning Norwegian, they immediately switch to English. I don't blame them at all, but I see how someone speaking English could not learn Norwegian in 10 years and be very happy.

That's because you are visibly American. If you looked more like a southerner, you'd have much better, they wouldn't switch to English. On the other hand, they wouldn't even speak a Norwegian to you.

I don't think it's looks, it's accent. Often someone will start a conversation with me in Norwegian before I've spoken, then switch when I answer. Granted, My Norwegian is not great yet (A2/B1 level), but it still definitely makes it harder to practice and learn here.

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#335

Post by PsycheOS »

quartesixte wrote: post #89
yed wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shopping mall conglomerate. They specialize in massive multi-level shopping malls.

And they’re fucking everywhere and inescapable, even in big cities. And just like suburban malls, rather boring and filled with your usual milieu of chain stores (Uniqlo among them).

Because they serve a purpose and have high utility.

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#336

Post by rayiner »

epups wrote: post #270
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody has gone to war with eachother in every continent all the way through history. If you go live in a country (long-term, which 10 years is), you should learn the language and not expect the locals to try to conform to your not-knowing the language... you're there, it's their country, their language, not vice-versa. How can you expect a country where people employed there don't know the local language to even…

If I live in the country for 10 years, then it is my country too. Perhaps it is in my interest to learn the language, and perhaps it isn't. There are plenty of countries in the world where people get by perfectly fine without even having a unifying language. Do you guys know how every language came to be? It was through the interaction of people from different cultures, and it is an ongoing process. Germany was not e…

> If I live in the country for 10 years, then it is my country too

Lol no. You’re not a sovereign individual. You’re part of a society, and every society is the product of people who have a culture that’s been cultivated over generations. Japan is a creation of the Japanese—the fruit of generations of Japanese people building a society according to their culture—not some foreigner who’s lived there for a fraction of a lifetime.

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#337

Post by ubercore »

tsukikage wrote: post #321
petodo wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That may be the real issue here. Mandarin has nearly as many speakers as English. Completely different league, English has by magnitude more speakers than Chinese. > Why should anyone be interested in people who don't "learn at least" Mandarin? Because not learning any foreign language is quite sign of ignorant character, while English is foreign language in most of the world and most of the world English speakers…

> Completely different league, English has by magnitude more speakers than Chinese. That's an incredible claim. Got a reference for it? Wikipedia reckons 1.5bn English vs 1.1 bn Chinese.

Those numbers are native or second language. I bet the English numbers shoot way up vs Mandarin if you drop the bar to basic language skills or holding limited conversations.

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#338

Post by ManuelKiessling »

modo_mario wrote: post #314
epups wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a lose-lose situation for everyone involved, really. The German speaker is limited in what she or he can express, the German audience is limited in what they can understand, the English audience doesn’t progress in learning the language of their new home country. Maybe, but by not learning German they expats miss out on access to about 40 million Germans/Austrians/Swiss who don't also speak English (and they a…

So I take it you took it upon yourself to learn Mandarin and perhaps also Spanish?

No, but I don’t engage in Mandarin or Spanish communities.

I do engage in English-speaking communities, and I do so using English.

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#339

Post by cc81 »

epups wrote: post #270
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody has gone to war with eachother in every continent all the way through history. If you go live in a country (long-term, which 10 years is), you should learn the language and not expect the locals to try to conform to your not-knowing the language... you're there, it's their country, their language, not vice-versa. How can you expect a country where people employed there don't know the local language to even…

If I live in the country for 10 years, then it is my country too. Perhaps it is in my interest to learn the language, and perhaps it isn't. There are plenty of countries in the world where people get by perfectly fine without even having a unifying language. Do you guys know how every language came to be? It was through the interaction of people from different cultures, and it is an ongoing process. Germany was not e…

As you age and require more and more services from the state of those countries do you think that country should provide you with an interpreter? You might encounter government employees, healthcare professionals or elderly care that does not speak English.

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#340

Post by lmm »

petodo wrote: post #148
woahitsraj wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent about half my year in Japan and half my year in Sweden and I speak both languages. It's always shocked me how many expats feel it's not necessary to speak the language but the justifications are totally different. In Sweden they say "Everyone here speaks English anyway" In Japan they say "All of my friends are expats anyway" I think if people don't want to learn a language they will come up with any excuse.

> I spent about half my year in Japan and half my year in Sweden and I speak both languages. Yeah, I really doubt that you can move to Japan with zero Japanese and in half year learn enough to hold normal conversation and be able to read/write Japanese, all that while working full time and not being immersed every day in Japanese language course.

> Yeah, I really doubt that you can move to Japan with zero Japanese and in half year learn enough to hold normal conversation and be able to read/write Japanese, all that while working full time and not being immersed every day in Japanese language course.

If you're working full time in Japanese you could absolutely get conversational Japanese within half a year. Indeed I suspect that's the most practical way.

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