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Antidepressants help bacteria resist antibiotics: study

nature.com

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Re: Antidepressants help bacteria resist antibiotics: study

#131
post #119
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence that antibiotic resistance in any significant way crosses from livestock pathogens to human pathogens? I had a medical professor lecturing a couple years back saying it was basically a myth.

You mean empiric evidence as in “here is a human with an infection that is resistant to antibiotics due to livestock use”? No, there isnt. It’s theoretical.

Currently 2 of 18 resistant bacteria considered less urgent threats by the CDC are associated with farm animals. However, bacteria exchange DNA between species so the concern is significant even if it’s hard to prove these links.

What’s most concerning isn’t antibiotic use by farms but how wide a range of antibiotics are used. If we limited the industry to only use a specific set of antibiotics that would be one thing, but they keep having access to newer drugs.

Re: Antidepressants help bacteria resist antibiotics: study

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Factory farm companies have known that anti-biotics, hormones, and pesticides are causing increased rates of cancer and other (cough cough) disorders This may be true in specific cases... But surely isn't true in general. It's the role of science and government to find out which anti-biotics, which hormones, and which pesticides case increased rates of which cancers. As soon as there is evidence suggesting a specif…

Better to have comprehensive information available about every aspect of our food supply so individuals can make decisions based on the science as it evolves and not have to wait for government action (which always comes last).

And who is going to make that comprehensive information available?

Re: Antidepressants help bacteria resist antibiotics: study

#133
post #4

Interesting and potentially dangerous. But as long as many millions of pigs are covered in antibiotic foam (which is just rinsed off into the drain), I'm not gonna lie sleepless over this. Resistant bacteria will cause humanity huge troubles if we don't manage to do something radical soon.

[dead]

Re: Antidepressants help bacteria resist antibiotics: study

#134

> In bacteria grown in well-oxygenated laboratory conditions, the antidepressants caused the cells to generate reactive oxygen species: toxic molecules that activated the microbe’s defence mechanisms. [ ... ] > However, in bacteria grown in anaerobic conditions, levels of reactive oxygen species were much lower and antibiotic resistance developed much more slowly. [ ... ] > But in healthy humans, E. coli is found mai…

Given these findings, respiratory diseases still seem like a reasonable concern.

Re: Antidepressants help bacteria resist antibiotics: study

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I misunderstand your last sentence: what good is an antibiotic not useful on animals, given that we are animals?

Non human animals. Farmers feed massive amounts of antibiotics to their livestock. This used to increase their weight, but it’s no longer clear that this works.

For reference, ~80% of antibiotics in the US are used on livestock, not to treat infections, but to prevent them and because pumping them full of antibiotics successfully increases animals' weights[1], as you said.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4638249/

Re: Antidepressants help bacteria resist antibiotics: study

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh that's very interesting. So the problem isn't just finding a way to gum up the /single/ cell wall production process that is common across all bacteria species-- it's doing it in a way that targets some commonality between the many such mechanisms that differ per species, across all relevant species. And I suppose that between species this difference can be non trivial. Literally 4D chess and we don't even know wh…

Yes, exactly. For example, Gram positive and Gram negative bacteria have very different structures to their cell walls, and penicillins tend to be effective for Gram positive bacteria, but not Gram negative bacteria. There can be other considerations too. Rickettsial species, as an example, live inside their host cells, so you need an antibiotic that can penetrate into a human cell, which most antibiotics can't. Basi…

I had assumed that cell wall formation was such a primitive part of bacteria that it would have developed once and be roughly the same for all species. Thanks for the correction.

I suppose there may still be some common sub mechanism that we could target? But we don’t understand the mechanism well enough to do that intentionally. It’s really tragic how little of biology we can simulate today.

Thanks for the informative responses!

Re: Antidepressants help bacteria resist antibiotics: study

#137
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is phages. But last time I went into the rabbit hole the TLDR was that it is not patentable so there's no money in it. And everyone needs a different phages cocktail. I sleep at night knowing that push come to shove someone will step in and mass produce machines to create personal phage cocktails.

Yay another phage thread! Phages do work, and we've treated a small bunch of people at Phage Australia for our clinical trial. There's a few things about using phages for treatments I think everyone should be aware of: (1) phages work!! The physicians we work with (and ourselves) are surprised every time they work. It's just really labor and time-intensive. (2) if antibiotics are "bite sized snacks" then phages are l…

Are y'all using this for lyme disease? It seems like a billion dollar opportunity right there if somebody can make this reliable.

Re: Antidepressants help bacteria resist antibiotics: study

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good insight. I went through a profound burnout in 2019 after I lost my digestive health and got low serotonin due to a combination of work stress, overtraining at the gym, dehydration and a finger of booze after particularly hard days. Also food sensitivities to legumes, nightshades and almond butter, which I wasn't aware of at the time. I just learned that 25% of people who get food poisoning go on to develop IBS.…

> profound burnout in 2019 after I lost my digestive health and got low serotonin due to a combination of work stress, overtraining at the gym, dehydration and a finger of booze after particularly hard days. Also food sensitivities to legumes, nightshades and almond butter, which I wasn't aware of at the time Ashwagandha is a nightshade, so you likely weren't allergic to nightshades if it helps. Also, I'm not sure ho…

Fair points, ya, I'm not disagreeing, and most of what I'm saying is anecdotal. My working theory right now is that food poisoning triggered an autoimmune response to something with my gut motility. Exacerbated by sleep apnea, stress, drinking, malnourishment from inflammation, who knows. Ashwagandha may have desensitized that somehow.

To be blunt, 2019 was one of the worst years of my life. I found myself out of work with no insurance and worse, no executive function. I went from loving my job and hitting gym PRs to broke and barely able to get out of bed in the morning. 20 years of trying to win the internet lottery and failing had sapped my motivation. Then the pandemic hit and things went from bad to worse to even worse to past the point of believability. But thankfully that series of traumas led to my conscious awakening and so I am grateful for that experience. And am gainfully employed and having fun with my work again, which is priceless. And hitting gym PRs again, which is frankly a miracle.

I guess I keep OCD'ing on this because working in tech is so high-risk that mental health issues are all but inevitable IMHO. But there are basic preventative steps we can do that western medicine seems reluctant to advocate for whatever reason. I have to be honest - without publicly funded healthcare, our system is garbage because it's being ruled by the profit motive and a tiny elite who spend their ill-gotten gains on lobbying to get out of paying their taxes. Their greed preventing win-wins like preventative medicine is just another hurdle for people on the edge, effectively talking them out of getting the care they need. Maybe the breadcrumbs I leave might help someone struggling to get just well enough to schedule an appointment.

I should add that I finally did go to the doctor and got some treatment, but they had trouble isolating any specific cause. I feel that the everlywell.com (no affiliation) food sensitivity test I took and dietary changes were the main fix, YMMV.

Re: Antidepressants help bacteria resist antibiotics: study

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better to have comprehensive information available about every aspect of our food supply so individuals can make decisions based on the science as it evolves and not have to wait for government action (which always comes last).

And who is going to make that comprehensive information available?

The companies that produce and sell food. They are currently required by law to make certain information available to the public. The law should be changed to require vastly more information for the consumer who consume their food.
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