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Japan has changed in important and visible ways

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Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#161

Post by ManuelKiessling »

hogepiyo wrote: post #92

It's difficult to take the author of the article being repudiated (Wingfield-Hayes) seriously when he has lived here for over 10 years and doesn't speak the language. Any other person who lived in a country for a decade and can't converse in the language would be (rightfully imo) shamed for it. Idk, say what you like about how journalists operate but living somewhere for a decade and not speaking the language doesn't…

It’s the one thing where I’m That Old White Man by now. My favorite is user groups meetups in Germany where there are one or two people who don’t speak German, and then request the talk to be held in English.

Imagine me attending a meetup in London as the only German and requesting to have the talk held in German. It would be ridiculous.

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#162

Post by lynx23 »

sho_hn wrote: post #109
hogepiyo wrote: post #92

It's difficult to take the author of the article being repudiated (Wingfield-Hayes) seriously when he has lived here for over 10 years and doesn't speak the language. Any other person who lived in a country for a decade and can't converse in the language would be (rightfully imo) shamed for it. Idk, say what you like about how journalists operate but living somewhere for a decade and not speaking the language doesn't…

> Any other person who lived in a country for a decade and can't converse in the language would be (rightfully imo) shamed for it. I'm German, living in Berlin, and have wonderful friends who fit that description. They live full lives, and I couldn't care less about their German levels. They do enough good things with their time they put their energy into instead. People should learn languages if they feel a reason t…

I am with OP, if someone is living in a foreign country for around 10 years and still dont speak the local language, that is displaying a certain disregard for the country they decided to life in.

As others have replied, maybe that is less of an issue in a certain tech-related bubble, but...

I have seen foreigners working in customer service who dont speak the local language sufficiently. People like you maybe expect the customer to speak english such that these people can fullfill the job? I don't.

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#163

Post by tpm »

vasco wrote: post #111
hogepiyo wrote: post #92

It's difficult to take the author of the article being repudiated (Wingfield-Hayes) seriously when he has lived here for over 10 years and doesn't speak the language. Any other person who lived in a country for a decade and can't converse in the language would be (rightfully imo) shamed for it. Idk, say what you like about how journalists operate but living somewhere for a decade and not speaking the language doesn't…

So if you live in 4 countries over four decades in your adult life you will learn 4 new languages? I don't think you must've lived more than one place abroad, or somewhere with good English. For example I speak 4 languages, understand another 2, but don't speak the language of the country I've lived in for the last 3.5 years, and I'm not even learning. At some point it's just absolutely not worth it and I'm just gonn…

But you can't claim in-depth knowledge of the country if you can't access primary sources. Which might be important to some jobs.

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#164

Post by somenameforme »

danielscrubs wrote: post #54

> Hiring 6 people to do the job of 2 is sadly common in Japan, and it’s a big reason why Japanese people earn such low and stagnant wages. Median wealth in Japan is 119,999 USD whilst in USA it is 93,271 USD. I see way more misery in American cities than I ever seen here. I also had an ex (with a masters degree mind you) who was a cleaning lady for a short while, and they worked her to the bone, 12 hour shifts, and s…

Here [1] is a graph of the Japanese markets. Keep in mind the logarithmic scale. Japan's economy was substantially healthier 30 years ago, and that's not cherry picking COVID stuff since it had nothing to do with that. Similarly, they've also seen their population start to die off by the millions. [2]

That makes it impossible to really compare US and Japan on many things. 30 years of economic stagnation/decline paired with population decline are going to be a driving factor in things like corporate compensation and shareholder returns.

[1] - https://www.macrotrends.net/2593/nikkei-225-index-historical...

[2] - https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/JPN/japan/population-g...

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#165

Post by defrost »

hogepiyo wrote: post #92

It's difficult to take the author of the article being repudiated (Wingfield-Hayes) seriously when he has lived here for over 10 years and doesn't speak the language. Any other person who lived in a country for a decade and can't converse in the language would be (rightfully imo) shamed for it. Idk, say what you like about how journalists operate but living somewhere for a decade and not speaking the language doesn't…

English speakers are notorious for not bothering to learn local languages, eg:

    Migrants failing to assimilate, 200-year-study finds

    Migrants to Australia have displayed an inability to assimilate with local values and refuse to speak anything but their native tongue, a study covering the last 200 years has found.

    The study confirms a popularly-held belief in parts of the country that migrants simply refuse to fit in.

    Boat people from as far back as 1788 didn’t bother applying for passports or visas, were set on introducing their own laws, and, in many cases concealed criminal records, according to the damning report.
~ https://www.theshovel.com.au/2023/01/26/migrants-failing-to-...

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#166

Post by timr »

astrange wrote: post #113
zztop44 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least they let their citizens in, unlike Australia!

There's a popular Japanese streamer who had a whole mental breakdown character arc since she was studying abroad in Australia and couldn't go home for a year or two because they wouldn't let her back in if she did. And being in Melbourne she couldn't leave the house for some of that either.

I assume you mean that Australia wouldn't let her back in. Japan never closed the borders to citizens.

They did make it annoying to come back, however. Several different friends had to do long quarantines in not-great facilities.

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#167

Post by onethought »

defrost wrote: post #165
hogepiyo wrote: post #92

It's difficult to take the author of the article being repudiated (Wingfield-Hayes) seriously when he has lived here for over 10 years and doesn't speak the language. Any other person who lived in a country for a decade and can't converse in the language would be (rightfully imo) shamed for it. Idk, say what you like about how journalists operate but living somewhere for a decade and not speaking the language doesn't…

English speakers are notorious for not bothering to learn local languages, eg: Migrants failing to assimilate, 200-year-study finds Migrants to Australia have displayed an inability to assimilate with local values and refuse to speak anything but their native tongue, a study covering the last 200 years has found. The study confirms a popularly-held belief in parts of the country that migrants simply refuse to fit in.…

This is about non English speakers not learning English. I’m missing some sarcasm?

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#168

Post by wnscooke »

In my own experience, being a foreigner who (seemingly) doesn't speak a local language actually does open doors to unique insights - the people who do speak English are quite ready to tell all the ins and outs, pros and cons, ups and downs, subtleties, gripes, concerns, cultural tidbits exactly because they think I won't go around talking about what they said.

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#169

Post by ta_lang »

hogepiyo wrote: post #92

It's difficult to take the author of the article being repudiated (Wingfield-Hayes) seriously when he has lived here for over 10 years and doesn't speak the language. Any other person who lived in a country for a decade and can't converse in the language would be (rightfully imo) shamed for it. Idk, say what you like about how journalists operate but living somewhere for a decade and not speaking the language doesn't…

I've lived abroad for over a decade and spent considerable effort learning the local language but I wouldn't shame someone for not doing the same. Learning a language as an adult is incredibly difficult and imo the benefits are limited unless you are learning the absolute basics (e.g. learning the 200 most common words) or you're able to get to a high level (which again is incredibly difficult to do).

Re: Japan has changed in important and visible ways

#170

Post by wenc »

vasco wrote: post #111
hogepiyo wrote: post #92

It's difficult to take the author of the article being repudiated (Wingfield-Hayes) seriously when he has lived here for over 10 years and doesn't speak the language. Any other person who lived in a country for a decade and can't converse in the language would be (rightfully imo) shamed for it. Idk, say what you like about how journalists operate but living somewhere for a decade and not speaking the language doesn't…

So if you live in 4 countries over four decades in your adult life you will learn 4 new languages? I don't think you must've lived more than one place abroad, or somewhere with good English. For example I speak 4 languages, understand another 2, but don't speak the language of the country I've lived in for the last 3.5 years, and I'm not even learning. At some point it's just absolutely not worth it and I'm just gonn…

> So if you live in 4 countries over four decades in your adult life you will learn 4 new languages?

Yes.

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